At Olds - one of the cars we built for Daytona was a 4-door. I cant imagine why, but thats what we built. With the heavy-duty axles, wheels, and other suspension, and of course the stock car special tires. The tires were interfering with the fenders, so we had the experimental sheet metal guys nicely bang everything out to clear. That was before NASCAR body templates. Everything was factory then. Anyway, in spite of being a 4-door, it did look cool, great big tires, fenders out a little, and a rough idle even better than a Duntov - running at an idle, that big Olds would just sit there a rockin, exhaust a spittin too. Exhaust pipes were 2-1/4 I think, and it did have mufflers. Sounded great. Came straight out the back. I kind of like smaller pipes, they sound better - like the '57 Chevy with a Duntov cam - no big pipes there and they sounded good too.
Some more stuff - not exactly Olds J2, but interesting I hope. Before the new Chevy V8 came out in 55, a guy in Lansing, Michigan ordered a 2-door hardtop with a 6-cylinder engine. Guess he didnt think the new V8 would be anything special. When the car arrived, he took it to the Cadillac dealer, and they swapped the 6 for a 55 Cad and Hydra-Matic. This was at the dealer. If I remember right, one of the two mechanics was Charlie Johnson who later had the Olds powered Glass Chariot modified roadster. In 55 we didnt have any regular drags yet. Maybe once at the airbase in Battle Creek, but that might have been 56. One time we did have 1/8-mile drags at the Frandor shopping center. Anyone out there remember that? Anyway, the Cad powered Chevy showed up at the Frandor drags and beat everybody, including all of the new Chevy V8s. Light car, big V8 and that Hydra-Matic. Wow. If you remember the 6-cylinder Chevys didn't have the little "V8" under the tail lights - we used to look for that to see if they were running a V8. Im going to see Charlie Johnson next week and Ill ask him what he remembers about that Chevy. And Ill see if I can get some photos of his modified roadster (dragster with a glass body) to post here.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-comfficeffice" /><o></o> Long time ago
yorgatron- Beautiful 54; Whats in it, what rpm does it spin. what does it weigh, 1/4 mile times etc. if you don't mind telling.
I want some of those traction bars! owen thomas would you be willing to take some measurements for us so they could be duplicated?
Regarding the Traction Masters: I can measure everything and make AutoCad drawings of the pieces and can give you those drawings in .dwg, .dxf or a .pdf file. Some of the parts are castings, but I would them fabrications today. I could probably have everything made too, but am busy with other things. Ill just make them a .pdf file because everyone can open that and print copies. Give me a couple of days.
Owen Thomas, (not your real name), you have been a treasure of information and stories on the Olds. Thanks
<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 2971655" vAlign=top><TD class=alt2 align=middle width=125>aerorocket</TD><TD class=alt1>Re: Oldsmobile J2 <HR style="COLOR: #e5e5e5; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #e5e5e5" SIZE=1>yorgatron- Beautiful 54; Whats in it, what rpm does it spin. what does it weigh, 1/4 mile times etc. if you don't mind telling. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> '54 block .030" over 324 balanced,some crazy lumpy cam i got from Skratch,'55 #8 heads with hardened ex.seats with .040" skimmed off,72 cc chamber giving 9.5:1 compression ratio,home porting job,'3 Holley 94s on an Edelbrock OL396,factory ex.manifolds dual pipes glass packs with rust holes,stock dual-range hydro still because it hooks up too hard as it is,i wanna get some traction bars on there before i hop up the trans. weighs about 3600 never run the 1/4 mile so i don't have a time to give you. i sure would appreciate plans for those traction masters,U-joints ain't cheap oh yeah,i just had the exhaust crossover passages filled with molten aluminum on some '56 #10 heads,and i just bought a Sioux valve seat grinder recently,so i'm going for max flow this time,along with some homemade Belond-style headers.
Regarding Traction Masters: http://tractionmaster.com/ The site states Inquire about Unlisted & Custom Traction Masters, so they could probably make some up for your Oldsmobile. Maybe give them a call or send an email. Ill still make drawings of mine, if you want to make some up yourself. Traction Masters will be a big help, but if that 54 makes any serious power, youll need a limited slip diff too.
Yorgatron because of the different coefficients of expansion between aluminum and cast could there be a problem with heads cracking on a street motor with the crossover filled with aluminum? I was going to do this on mine but I am a little leary, and none of my motor head buddies who have done this in drag engines could say for sure that I would not have a problem.
Test of post .pdf of traction bars. Not finished yet, but mostly done. load .pdf files on a cd and take to Kinko's and you can have prints run full size on 24" x 36" sheets, cost about $5 a sheet.
the guy i originally got the idea from said they would just melt some pistons from a Cummins diesel in a cast iron pan and just pour it in. i talked to a lot of people who know a thing or two about metal and casting and whatnot,and they all had the same worry as you. they all talked about preheating the head and cooling it down slowly. i found a place locally that does racing heads,they charged $80 and they look fine to me.
This has got to be the nicest looking J2 ever. An incredible car, and they kept the Olds engine. Usually the Olds gets thrown away and they put in a big block Chev. http://www.bigwigracecars.com/57oldswagon.htm
Yorgatron thanks for your reply. I don't think these aluminum fillers will be a problem even though the coefficient of expansion for aluminum is greater than that of cast. The aluminum will be between 1250 to 1400 degees when poured into the head; it will shrink as it cools leaving some clearance for expansion of the aluminum when the engine is brought up to temperature. The only problem I can possiby see is if the space between the aluminum and cast were to become filled with carbon over time then maybe the aluminum could apply enough pressure to crack the cast. I wouldn't be so concerned exept I intend to drive to Mokan and maybe even further west someday. A cracked head on an early olds would really suck when your a couple thousand miles from home. If anyone has any opinions or the results of actual experience with doing this I would appreciate your reply.
My concern with the aluminum filling the crossover is more about the heat it might trap. A big heat sink. One problem we did have with Olds engines was breaking exhaust valves. This is caused by the concentration of heat where the two center exhaust valves are close to each other. I understand what you are trying to do with the ports, but I kind of doubt that filling that area does much. One place to find out is on a flow bench. Flow a stock head then a filled head. Know anyone with a flow bench? Be fun to try. One thing some of the guys used to do was to weld in a port divider in the center exhaust ports, then have individual header pipes. That always sounded good, but I never saw any flow results on it A long time ago at Olds we got in an engine from an Indiana State Highway Patrol car that had blown. Olds made special engines for their Police cars. They were painted silver if you ever run across one. Anyway, the worksheet on this engine said that the Police car had been in a long sustained pursuit at top speed when the engine let go. We found a dropped an exhaust valve. Not good for Olds, but good for the pursuee (is that a word?). Can you imagine seeing a rapidly diminishing red gumball in your rear view mirror
Thanks Owen for your advice. I did the center divider and we built 4 tube headers for the willys. If this was strictly a drag car or only going to be used for relatively short hops I would try the exhaust stuffers but I do plan on some long trips so I'm probably not going to do this. I have a tendency to be tough on equipment so I'll have enough trouble keeping it running as it is. My traveling companion is already bitching because she found out there will be no A/C. I can't seem to convince her that vent windows are just as good.
: the guy i learned this trick from claims it was good for a 1/10th improvement in his 1/4 mile times all by itself. i have every reason to believe him. he never mentioned dropping any valves in his drag car. my personal theory is that you would want the heat to go out the exhaust manifolds (or headers) rather than stay in the cylinder heads/intake manifold.this is why people wrap their headers,you want the heat to go out. the other reason i'm filling them is to have a cooler intake manifold,i have the heat risers blocked off with steel shims but it's still way too hot,the paint is burning off the manifold at the risers still,and we all know that a cooler intake means colder,denser air entering the combustion chambers. the other modification is to seperate the siamesed exhaust ports,i think it's better to have the heat going out the pipe,than into the adjacent exhaust port. BTW thank you very much for the traction bar plans
here is the ROCKET inmy roadster, in the dragster, and some on hold ( the two on the far right are org factory replacment motors with one being marked with a factory tag reading J2 replacment
Wow Owen, thats some cool history, I dragged my 55 Olds all the way from Phoenix to New Zealand and have hauled a couple of other rocket engines in over the years too and collected some bits Offy 3x2 with original 57 J2 carbs from a set up I found locally and and edelbrock 4x2 soon to be joined by matching valve covers. The traction master plans are all good too...... Buick 320a cool looking collection,
Thanks for posting all that good stuff, Owen. I've had my 57 88 for over 27 years and as much as I know about it, I learn even more reading your posts. Great history and a fascinating read.
Thanks owen thomas! Yorgatron, on the siamese exhaust port. Won't a proper set of headers "suck" the heat out of the head eliminating the need for separating it and filling the crossover? Maybe a stupid question considering what you're already doing to the heads but I'm just asking cause I was thinking of doing the same thing but I really like how it looks when rocket headers have the larger center pipe.
excellent reading here in 57 58 I had a 324 powered 35 coupe with the hydro and a open drive early truck rearend dual coil dizzy 4 barrel carb n lowered in the front no interior except for front seat did a good job on all the early V/8 chevvys at the time ran a set of 8/20's on rear of an ambulance in a wrecking yard. eventually put in isky cam n lifters kit and was going to put he eng in 54 ford but it was stolen I did the welding on quite a few heads on the exhaust divider in those days seemed to improve a bit was in original lifters car club then in Imperial beach god how I miss those old days now it's just old bangers Ken
Yorgatron I agree with you about heat going to the intake. My tripower intake is stamped Laur; looks like an old offy that has been cut up and modified. It has no provision for exhaust crossover, this has been removed. The crossover port in the head is blocked off with a 3/8 thick piece of aluminum that bolts down with the intake. As far as the exhaust fillers if they are done right the heads have to flow better. Owen does have a good point however, the aluminum will be a heat sink as it will not transfer heat to the head very well. In my opinion this won't hurt performance I'm just concerned about durability over the long haul. I talked to a Pontiac guy who did this to his drag car with no problems. At the pace I'm going you will have worn your engine out before mine is done so I will be able to use you as a test mule.
Owen Thomas,thanks for the good reading! You mentioned shimming the rocker stands (re: 324 olds ). Is there any easy way to do that? At one time I cut a lot of brass shim stock patterns with the oiling holes and bolt holes.It was a real pain in the ass plus no guarantee of the proper height. Seems the olds valvetrain is so finnicky. Adjustable rockers seem to be the only solution sometimes,lest I pull out all my hair first. This must have been a real problem though right from the start? I have cracked a few stands from the bolts being off and on and tightened so many times...its frustrating!
Yorgatron I agree with you that the heat will be directed out of the exhaust port more efficiently. The blob of aluminum will become very hot though because it will not conduct the heat to the cooling system very well. Aluminum does dissipate heat well but in this case it must go from the aluminum to the cast to the coolant. It will not transfer this heat efficiently with a loose fit. I also agree with you that the over all cylinder temperature may be reduced. My only concern is that the constant expansion and contraction of dissimilar materials,the aluminum being surrounded by cast and the aluminum having the greater expansion rate, may eventually crack the head. Believe me I want to do this but I just don't want problems down the road.
The Jalopy Journal
