"194 Tempest Drivetrain in a Model T questions" ?

I don't know how the shaft hooked to the auto transaxle on those, but here's an idea I have been kicking around for a track T W/ a transaxle in the back.

Make a torque tube (pipe, seamless, DOM, aluminum, your call). Use a drive hub at the crank (Volvo Penta, or maybe one of the drive adapters for the circle burners running locked out PG's) and have an aftermarket 9" axle splined to fit. You would have to figure out how deep the axle bearing mount needs to be into the back end of the tube and have the axle flange delivered blank, or custom drilled to fit whatever you come up with to couple to your transaxle.

This is not orriginally my idea, I met a guy in Spokanne that had a Blown SBC in the middle of a Corvair with a torque tube like this. His was pretty big around and heavy wall (heavy overall I immagine) but he's making a few boatloads more power than I plan on for my project.

I was planning on mounting the torque tube fairly high in the car to get the floor lower. Sounds screwwy I know, but I was planning on running the torque tube through the middle of the ****pit (bottom of the tube somewhere between 6-10 inches off the floor) with the shifter mounted on top of it.

Don't know if that helps, but I hope so.

Oh and if the converter sticks out the back where you can see it spin, it needs some kind of spiral painted on it.

 

CVD, I looked for the T at York, no find. A few friends remember it, but don't know who's car it is.

 

I had a '62 Tempest LeMans for quite a few years. It went many 10's of thousands of miles with no problem with the timing chain. In fact, the entire drive train was very reliable. I still wish I hadn't sold it sometimes.

I'd put a regular drive shaft in it. Have a machine shop make two adapters. One for the engine and one for the ******.

 

I think your 5 yr. old presented you with an interesting challenge.
Is he a partner that gets due consideration of his inputs?
Can the two "old" guys measure up to the challenge?
Fight the urge to be like all the rest!

 

Ne**ussian, the rope-drive is actually like a six-foot input shaft, it slips into the transaxle. I like the spiral idea. For your project, though the transaxle is freakin' huge. Possibly if you were going to do a modified type rod you could get it high enough. I would definitely like to see some pictures of that!

Nobod, thanks for the check, I appreciate your time.

Wsdad, that might be what we end up doing.

Blackrat, yeah, my boy is certainly "challenging".
I'm not sure if me and Poppa have what it takes.

"Happiness is what counts with children, happiness and harmony"-Mrs. Salt Charlie and the Chocalate Factory

 

I actually have a VW 4 speed swing axle box that was beefed up to run in an OT race car dad and I built. I was thinking that could still work (depending on it's condition, it's been awa for a while) in a light enough car. I figured on using as much of the old setup as possible.

 

It has occurred to me that there are still several m***-production cars that are running transaxles: the new Corvette & the 924,944,928 Porsches. I know that GM tore down 944s & 928s during the development of their torque tube design for the Vette to solve a harmonic resonance issue.

Porsche torque tubes are super cheap in the junkyards nowadays, so maybe this would be a good starting point. Since there are V8 adapters on the market (Renegade V8s), you could even use the Porsche 5spd trans.

just a thought....

 

how's the porsche setup work? is that what they use for the all-wheel drive, rear engine cars or the 924/928(?) versions?

 

That porsche idea is awesome!
I just got the 'ol four-banger fired tonight...sounds like a small plane!
I will look into the porsche stuff, thanks.

 

I think you got a good thing goin here. Don't let anyone convince you that it can't be done the way you invisioned it. It can always be done w/planning, money, and tools. Sometimes more money, and sometimes more tools depending on your skills. Sometimes you will have to do it 3 or 4 times until it right. I'd go w/it. You got 11 years until it needs to be road-worthy. Just my 2 cents.

 

Thanks, Adam.
I'm talking the torque-tube thing over with a buddy right now.
We'll see, I think we can have it funcional in the next couple of weeks and then make it pretty later.

 

WTF!?
SPAM.
Reported!

 

The 944-928 use a bell housing at both ends & a solid driveshaft in-between. There is provisions for the shift linkage on top. I kinda think that it's like a typical Ford torque tube, only with the bells on each end.

Renegade Conversions make adapters for the SBC, so modding that to the Poncho shouldn't be too tough. The back end mat take a bit more thinkin'.

If you want the manual, the 924-944-928 had an auto or a 5spd, but they are IRS. The rr suspension mounts with 6 bolts, so it might be possible to use that trans for the conversion.

 

I know that it was supposed to be a track T, but I don't want to get too ****-snuggly with the rope drive.

So, I guess it is more of a highboy with a really weird rake.

Kind of goes with the really weird drivetrain.

I still need to paint the spiral on the torque converter.

P.S. Anyone have any suggestions for putting an alternator on this sum*****...it's the only thing keeping me from going far.

Sorry about the ****py cell phone pics, I'm in the process of moving.

 

I hope those spikes around the firewall are some kind of disguised clecos...they gotta go

 

Temptests were never imported to Canada,so I have no first hand knowledge,
but I would take the "rope drive" apart to see how it was made.
Might give you some clues on how to shorten it.

If that isn't practical,and you still want the trans in back,
I would look at the 924/944 stuff.Should be cheaper than
the late model Corvette.

Most practical is probably the T5 with a Ford rear.
Definitely put GOOD brakes on it.
Kids are hard on brakes.

 

So the rope drive had to be made by man so it can be made.....Again by man....words to live by....I do! Take it apart, If you have access to a lathe and a mill it cant be that hard to modify or replace with a solid shaft. the alternator is the simple stuff, start with the hard stuff that way the project will see light before you dont.

 

Frank, I agree, but it is my son's car and I think he is going to have to outgrow them. I surely do not like the HUGE windshield frame on it either. He and I will continue to discuss it and move foreward.

Unkl Ian, I wasn't clear in my post, but I have successfully shortened the rope drive and got everything working. I have been driving it...and it is a friggin' blast.

Lionsgarage, you are exactly right. After spending a few weeks convincing myself it could not be done, I came to a revelation similar to yours. Then I just kept reading my signature over and over. What kind of man would I be if I were to advocate such a thing and not attempt it myself.

 

OK,so how did you do it ?
Sounds like turning Lead into Gold.

 

Good, and better.

Soooo, you get the spiral painted on it, or isn't the converter where you can see it (never having worked on one myself )?


Pictures of the shortening process would be great if you have them.

 

Twenty odd years ago I went north of Detroit, up by the Silverdome to look at a T-bucket with the whole engine-transaxle package. It had been in Hot Rod, so it was a pretty well turned out street rod. Problem I had with it was the huge, chromed A-arm rear suspension. This was well before Gray Baskerville started pounding the "dare to be different" drum. But it was tooo different looking even for my weird taste.
Sorry I can't remember how the 2 were connected. I do remember someone taking the flex shaft apart only to find what amounts to a braided cable. THe original manufacturing process puts it in a pre-determined tension. Shortening such a piece could be not only difficult, but a very weak link in the drive line.

 

weld a pulley to the torque converter and run the alternator off of it, or weld a u-joint saddle to the converter and drive the alt with a small driveshaft. That'll add to the "weird" factor.

 

Alright, so I was turned on to this place called "performanceyears" for info on the tempests. And boy, did they have a lot of it. I was inquiring about the rope drive shaft to see if they had any recollection of someone shortening it. I researched what it was made of...Forged Nickel-Chromium-Molybdenum Alloy steel, SAE 8660.(spring steel?)
I was asking about the strength and the bending properties. I guess that on launch they tested the shaft to be able to twist almost two full revolutions and not break. However when they get old they can just snap and then you go nowhere. One of the guys had a picture of a rope shaft that had been repaired with a u-joint!
http://forums.performanceyears.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=134407&d=1214476822
(^^^link to repaired rope shaft)
I looked at the shaft I had and figured out how to press off the bearings and move them around on the shaft. The torque tube is really just the rear motor mount and the front transmission mount. With the transaxle in place on the car and the motor mounted I measured my distance and decided that I needed to shorten the entire shaft by 25 1/2 inches. As I mentioned before, I am in the process of moving so, I don't have any pictures right now, but I will get them up for you guys.

After I cut the length out of the shaft I beveled the ends so that I could get a good weld. Then I used some medium wall tubing and hogged it out to be an interference fit over the shaft.(basically a 10 inch sleeve) I then drilled about 30 3/8 inch hole in the tubing for plug welds and a large hole in the center to weld the shaft. With everything set up on v-blocks and a runout gauge I welded the shaft together and the the sleeve to the shaft with all of the plug welds. When I finished welding it I quenched the area with oil in order to keep the spring steel properties. Then I placed the bearings where I wanted them on the shaft, and then shortened the torque tube.

After that my son and I did some donuts in the mud and dirt, and then moved on to burnouts on the street(to check the strength of the rope shaft, of course.) Needless to say, it held. I will try to get some pics of the rope drive shaft up soon.

Nexussian, the first thumbnail i attached is the pic of the car from the rear, that is how the TC sits, there will definitely be some sort of craziness going on with that torque converter.

 

Pontiac allowed for the engine shaking by having a HEAVY cast alternator bracket for the engine. Just ask on the py forums for one.

 

Thanks, Phil. PY is a pretty cool place for poncho stuff.

 

Can't you put it where the generator used to live on the stock brackets? A local guy did that with his '60 Pontiac that he'd put it on a full air suspension. I think he had to make a small L-shaped piece to make it all fit up.

Or just run a genny, that little car can't have too high of an amp draw.

 

RustyNewYorker, When I got the motor there was no brackets or belts or anything, just a water pump pulley and a crank pulley. And the Water pump pulley has to be at least 8 inches across. I got ahold of a factory alternator bracket for a 389, the guys at PY said it was what I needed, but I can't get the alternator far enough back to line up the pulleys.

I think you're right that I should just run a generator. This thing has almost no electrics to it anyway. I built the wire harness and made a 5 circuit fuse box and ended up with an extra fuse.

 

Yeah, I saw the picture, I just wasn't sure if that was actually the converter, or a cover / housing of some kind.

How many grooves do you have available on the crank pulley? If only one (the one you are running the water pump with) how about a pulley off the water pump pulley? I don't know how much room you will have to work with (in front of the engine) but an apropriately sized pully could be mounted there, if you had to. It would also let you move the alternator / generator forward (not sure if that's actually a plus or not).

 

Only one groove on the crank pulley, but two on the water pump pulley. That is the direction I'm leaning.

First I have to decide if I am going to chance a 40 mile drive to get it to my new shop, or trailer it.

No decision needed I'm putting a towstrap in the big truck and going for it!

Now goggles have surp***ed the alternator in order of importance.

 

Yeah, cause a bumble bee into the cornea @ 70 ish isn't a pretty mental pic (eww). Good luck.