is this rod shop guy nuts?

I built my coupe with a little 110V machine. Never really had any problems as 99% of the welding was on thinner metals. Even the frame was probably about 1/8" or so. The one thing I farmed out was the rear housing and its ***ociated brackets. I was able to set the rear up though, tack all of the brackets on just where I wanted them...and then just bring it to the local shop. They had a bigger machine and they finished it up for me. I might have been able to do it with multiple p***es but why take the chance?

-Scott

 

Grinding welds = Stress risers


I grind welds in some locations and on certain parts. No structural and for asthetics only. But how can you grind a roll of dimes? They are a thing of beauty.

I'd like to see his welds before he grinds, and 110 on structural framework, then grinding it down........ Someguys may think this works but I for one do not. I guess maybe I value my life a bit more than others.

There is a reason why NHRA wont let you grind welds on a ch***is.

 

Very much agreed. But something else bothers me: duty cycle. I'm not so good that I know whether or not a given machine can or can't do the job, but I do know duty cycle. And the smaller the machine, the shorter the duty cycle, in general.
At home, I've run my Syncrowave 250 'til the main fan cut in, which takes awhile...but with a 110 volt machine, I'd guess five minutes and you have to let the machine cool.
So, why is he trying to run a "professional" shop with a non-professional machine??
Or is just another guy who built a couple cars at home, found some money, and decided to open a shop??
Given the cost of a "pro" machine (250 series Millers, say), I cannot see trying to weld with a lesser machine on a shop schedule.
And the questions about quality that the machine raised should indicate a need to upgrade if just to show dedication to the craft.
Cosmo

 

Cosmo or Indashop, can you guys explain the stress riser? I'm just not familiar with the term (CRS). Thanks.

 

Simply put, it's a place on a part that stress will concentrate at, thereby hastening failure.
Grab a piece of strap steel, scratch a line across it, then bend it. It will tend to break at the line scribed. That line is a stress riser, much like the grinder marks left when grinding a weld. Sharp, raised areas do much the same thing, oddly enough.
Simple explanation, but I hope you get the idea.
And, yes, you can remove metal to smooth and eliminate a lot of stress risers, such a polishing a connecting rod. But removing weld material will weaken the joint almost all instances.
Cosmo

 

well from my experiance having the small one 140 amp 115 it serves me well with the 1/8 under but with the thiker stuff use my millar 220-180 buzz and if you use the flux core wire it's not as good as with gas at least thats what i've found the g*** rox

Al

 

I have to admit to falling into a lazy "backyard" rule of thumb, 1/8" and over gets the 230. Anything less I use the 120, saves actually having to think I guess. I have the baby on a 30 amp shop line, use it alone and make sure the puddle sinks in of course.

On the side, learning to get it right on lower powered stuff ain't a bad way to go. We teach wannabes at the float barn on really tiny powderwire migs on 3/16" & 1/4" pencil steel work. It's such a pita that they have no choice but to learn good heat saturation habits just to make it work. They're usually eager enough to work at it 'til they get it right. When they do, we step'em up to a gas 230 and after they stop burning everything up they're actually acceptable art welders. It doesn't take much more to train'em for stick and structural after that. I've seen "naturals" do the whole thing in as little as four weekends and even "ten-thumbs" cases usually pick it up in the course of building one float, though most don't enjoy the structural like they do the pencil art.

 

I follow you Cosmo, thanks.

 

I know I've seen plenty of posts warning against grinding of welds. But what about on a C shaped frame rail if it were welded inside and out and only the outside is ground smooth for appearance. Do you think that's still a problem? I guess it's still going to be weaker than leaving both sides unground. Interested in opinions.

 

Coming from a professional welder: Yes, it is okay. lol

You bevel the ends and run multiple high set p***es in the groove, then you can opt for a ***y looking cover p***.

The thing people seem to forget is that the smaller welders actually do the same thing as the bigger welders. The only difference is penetration. Delete that problem by beveling things, and you'll get the same finished product if you know what you're doing.

***On a side note: A lot of people also seem to think that cause they have a bigger welder they don't NEED to prepare their weld surfaces. That worries me when it comes to something like a car. I don't care if you're running a spray machine, bevel and grind that **** before you weld it. It takes a few extra seconds, but it helps you to make sure you've got 100% penetration!

 

On grinding welds:

Depends on the piece. If you're a good welder, do good prep work, and know how to get 100% penetration at all times then feel free to grind away... but don't grind to the point where you're digging obviously.

I know someone will disagree, and that's fine. We grind some of the structural welds at work and thats on machines made of up to 2 inch plate weighing over 6500 pounds pushing around a LOT of material.

It's all in the prepwork/penetration.

 

I have a Millermatic 135 that has worked fine for frame connectors, x-memebers, drive-shaft hoops, welding up holes in rear end housings (multiple p***es), etc. I think w/ carefull prep as said you are good to go at least 3/16". As w/ anything else in automotive constuction/destruction you must prep carefully and check all work.

2t

 

Glad to see the consensus is OK with using a 110 for most stuff. I use mine all the time, and I've never had a problem. I've built bikes, trikes, and currently working on a frame for a truck, and it works fine!

 

Thats it plain and simple when welding. Doesn't matter how big bad or small welder you got bad surface = bad weld.

Today I was putting these rocksliders on this 'burban. They ended up kicking over to the frame a bit higher than I had ground the undercoating off. I couldn't tel cause it was on the top side. I start blind welding, and it sounds like all POOP going on. Stop, go find a wire brush and putty knife and start working away. Would have saved me 30 minutes had I just ground the whole damn framerail to bare metal.

On boxing "C" channel I think thats fine. The stuff was supposed to be strong enough before you boxed it right? Unless we are talking an old rusty "A" ch***is and you are bolting a 500HP hemi to it. You may want to address the "C" channel and just scratch it and go with rectangle tubing.
With metal you have so many options. And if it doesn't look right or doesn't work for ya, you can cut it off and try again.

 

On boxing "C" channel I think thats fine. The stuff was supposed to be strong enough before you boxed it right? Unless we are talking an old rusty "A" ch***is and you are bolting a 500HP hemi to it. You may want to address the "C" channel and just scratch it and go with rectangle tubing.
With metal you have so many options. And if it doesn't look right or doesn't work for ya, you can cut it off and try again.[/quote]

Guess my question wasn't that clear. I'm working on an old Chev truck frame that is C shaped and heavy to begin with. Wasn't planning on boxing it. Would like the frame to appear as one piece again from the outside. Thought was to bevel the joints inside and out and weld from both sides. Grind the outside smooth and leave the inside. Or also diamond plate. Maybe beveling from both sides is too much. Any opinions?

 

cut the boxing plates to fit inside the frame. use 3/16th plate. Set the boxing plate in half the thickness.. weld away.

kiss the top and side with a sander and you're good to go.

BTW, a 220 machine will cut your electric bill in half.

BTW 2, my favorite saying, "its the weldor (person), not the welder (machine) that makes a strong weld"....

 

Can't grind welds on aircraft either.

But that's usually because the metal is "chrome molly" which has specific post weld cooling requirements. Grinding produces heat, and heat treated areas must be relieved.

 

a few have mentioned that prep is everything...but ,i'm surprised that no one has mentioned preheating the metal..

helps a lot with small welders

 

He's fine. If you ever do any welding then you know a 110 welder will pretty much weld anything on a car. The duty cycle is the problem with the 110 but with that said you dont need to be welding that long of a bead at one time anyways.

 

I just bought one of these also, haven't done a ton with it yet, but it really cranks and I believe that I wouldn't have a problem doing framework with it.

 

There are 110 (115 volt input) welders, and there are 110 volt welders...
The Hobart 140 puts out 140 amps (max).

The Lincoln Weldpack 100 puts out 88 amps max.

Quite a difference. I can see using the 140 amp on a frame, but the 88 amp ??

 

You can weld frames with 115 volt units if your experienced enough.
It will take more time but it can be done. When welding really heavy materials 1/2 or thicker, you have the choice of preheating the material beforehand providing good penetration. You also have the choice of running multiple stacked stringers.
Slow speeds at high voltage can do wonders.
If I was running a high dollar shop, I wouldn't be wasting my time babying a 115 volt Lincoln though.

 

I agree with cosmo, the duty cycle is the main reason I like my Lincoln 215. I have a Weldpak 110v machine also and it does a fair job......just has a lot shorter duty cycle. There are some people who could take the greatest machine.....set it up perfectly.....prepare the material flawlessly, and then make the worst weld imaginable.

 

Prep-work and penetration, and knowing how a good weld should look....period............."of course....the prep-work and penetration" that was her exact words......

 

110 vs 220......As a cert'd welder...the only real way you will EVER know what YOUR welder can do is by performing a "Fillet Fracture" test right there with your machine in your garage on your outlet with the Material you plan to weld together. The machines vary & power coming out of outlets vary....so pick up some s**** & do a fillet fracture & if it works...."Well, then you KNOW"

I'll watch this thread & if there are still questions & controvery....then I will no matter what, perform a p***ing and failing Fillet Fracture & post the pics so you guys will know.

See ...that's the deal with being certified, there is more than one way to skin a cat....and if you know the ways...then you have opened more doors on what you can do. A 110 with multiple p***' can do alot, but you HAVE TO KNOW YOUR MACHINE.

Carl Hagan

 

I pondered this 110 welder thing myself. Being that I work at a plant that makes frames, I brought home a few s****s of steel. They are 3.5 mils. I welded them together. Took them to work and handed them to our weld auditor. We sectioned the weld and put it under Micro-Vu (fancy microscope) then tried to break the weld with a hydraulic press. It held together just as well as the 480 volt 3 phase Millers we have at work. So my conclusion is, if you know what the **** you are doing and know the machines limitations 110/115v welders are all right. I welded this with a LINCOLN 3200 by the way.

 

amen!

 

I have 3 welders in the shop...a big ***ed snap-on Mig/Tig (220)

an "Auto Arc" (miller) 135xlt

and a Miller 135 Xl.

the "Auto Arc" 135 xlt is far and above my favorite. it was designed by Miller to be used in auto shops. High Duty cycle, and it just keeps on working. in 8 Years, I have replaced the wire drive and inner liner once a peice.

in the last 6 Years, 99 percent of the welding done here at the shop has been done with the oldes, comparitively smallest machine I own! Why?

because it's freakin bad ***.

 

Double that. its all about prep and skill. I worked at a shop and that 120V Lincoln did just fine for all the body work and the frame work we did.

 

for many years [60's and 70's] FOMOCO engineering center dearborn, michigan had few certified welders--- [steam, structure, or tool and die] --- my neighbor was one of the multi certified welders there [an original member of 'NOSE'--NATIONAL ORDER OF SMOKE EATERS. unfortunately diabetes has stolen his 'ability to feel his hands', his welding days are done.]
when called upon to perform a 'miracle' at someones home with 'their buzzbox',
he was able and capable, due to preparation before welding, and ability to 'read his weld', however he learned his skill thru training and 'experience'. my neighbor, a brother-born-of-another-mother/better friend than my mother born to me has forgotten more than i'll ever know!

most of those reading this are NOT skilled at 'set-up', WE ARE BLESSED TO HAVE reliable PRE-SET MACHINES---------ME INCLUDED!

[some years ago i bought an old HOBART TG 301 single phase on a rolling bernard water cart, huge/heavy------no electronics! it will do me until i die, unless IT dies first! at times 'proper set-up' is a real challenge!
i've had my MILLER 200, w/wire gun for 20 years, one 'board' cost me 30% of the machine purchase price. my point keeping the 'newer machines' in-service can be costly, something not taken into consideration at purchase time!

red ryder