Really enjoying the old '09 stories.... In the post earlier, someone commented that '09s used to beat the '65 and '66 396 Impalas. You have to remember, most '65/66 cars were 325hp models. Back in the '60s my Uncle had a '64 425/409, and his best friend bought a '65 325/396. He said the 409 was MUCH, MUCH faster. As far as them coming apart at high rpms... I realize factory tachs were not known for accuracy, but my Uncle swears that he used to peg the factory 7k tach before he'd powershift his 425hp car. It never came apart, and still ran when he pulled it to install a 195hp 283 to run Pure Stock in 1969. Said he sold the complete, running engine for like $150.
If I had one, or got a screaming deal on one, I'd find a project to use it. They are cool looking engines, but I don't think I'd go to a lot of trouble to dig one up. I think it made a better song than engine.
At a party back in the day, I went on a beer run with a guy, and he had a brand new 409 impala! MAN that thing pinned me back in the seat! was really good engine at the time.
If I could find one, I´d buy one for my 62 Impala. They are as good as nonexistent around here...
the saying I always heard was "They're hell when they're well, but they're sick a lot." I remember having to constantly adjust the solid lifters, until someone came up with the locking caps. Those who fat mouth them were either whomped by one, or have never actually seen a properly tuned one run.
It is interesting to hear all of these "opinions" from people who are not even old enough to really remember the 348/409/427 W motors, much less have driven one or against one. Of course this is what this site is all about,,,educating the young. 1) The 348/409 WAS NOT the result of changing a truck motor as some state. They came out the same year the truck motor did. GM decided to use it as a truck motor also because they needed a bigger engine for their trucks. 2) The W motor was very similar to the Ford MEL engine in that the combustion chamber was in the block, not the head. Both manufacturers were begining to trifle with swirl, quench, etc. 3) The MEL came out the same years as the FE, 1958. The FE was 332 and the MEL was 383/410/430. 4) Both manufacturers, when they went racing in the 60's, decided on a different route. Ford concentrated on the FE amd GM on the rat. IE, the death of the W and the MEL. The FE is slow? LOLOLOL,,, Beg your pardon, but my FE was no slouch. Seldom did a damn GMC motor of any kind, except a W motor or two, outrun it, but that was in the very early 60's. And, take a look at NASCAR history,,,LOL,,,Ford and Chrysler ruled for years. The W motors is the only GM engine i truly like. It is unique and it is powerful.
They are just like any other "older OHV" motor - you've got to spend a lot to get them to perform. It's a personal choice of what you want to run.
I knew I was getting old when my grandson heard the Beach boys singing "409" on the radio and asked why someone would write a song about spray cleaner. He is better educated now. If I am not mistaken the red Impala at the HAMB drags went pretty well. Don't recall the times but it was fun to watch.
Well I wasn't there but I have worked on a few. Some run real strong and others that seem the same just don't get after it like they should. Opposite true though too, some really pick 'em up and put 'em down. For your enjoyment, here's some footage I stumbled on from Island dragway in '62 shows them all. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w8v-oX2_iGA
In the late 60's we ran 1/4 mile dirt in Illinois,had a '55 Chev running a 327 with 5 races left in the season and 4th in points the 327 grenaded,we had a 315HP 348 from a '58 Impala we put in the car the difference in torque coming out of corners was unreal we picked up about 4 tenths over our previous best times and ended the season 2nd in points.
I had always heard that it was originaly designed for pass car applications. Cars were getting bigger and heavier (look at a '55 Chev next to a '58), and power options were increasing weight even more. The 348 was designed as a torquey engine to help move a big Impala w/ AC, PW, etc. Just so happens that it found it's way into trucks too.
Its amazing how those who probably have a 216 in their POS 49 Chevy can post a 409 is a Boat Anchor. Stating you have to spend lots of money to get one to run right is BS. A 409 right off the show room floor was a beast. We street raced the balls off of several that required NOTHING. Like someone posted, these 409 bashers weren't even born in those days much less driven one. A Chevy 409, 425 HP, was probably one of the baddest production cars ever made.
The one thing I know for sure about 409's is that apparently there are more of them in cars now than when they were first manufactured...I'm not saying the truth has been stretched but... cool tee shirts: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=236347
My info is secondhand, as I was born in '72... My uncle bought his 425/409 in '66, and he said that from '66-69, it didn't get beat much on the street. GTOs, 396 Chevelles, etc were easy prey. He said 427 Vettes and 440 Mopars were really the only cars that beat the 425/409 on the street back in the day. He went through many rear axle and trans combos, but he said it was an absolute monster w/ 4.56s, a close ratio Muncie, and cheater slicks.
I have a 348 in my 28 sedan makin 300 hp and she is a dream to drive awesome sound. She cruises real fine and if I need the power no problem this car hits a 100 mph with no problem in a big hurry. Not that I would drive her that fast. And the deep throat sound is what its about. John
In 1966 I had a A/A roadster with the engine out of my push car 62 Impala the dual quad 4-speed positraction 409. Replaced it with a engine from a 58 station wagon 283 with a flat cam!! The 409 was great in the days past and the memories still live in my mind every time I look at these photos. The engine was blueprinted with a roller cam and lighter pistons and a Joe Hunt Mag. the gear box was a 2nd and high 39 ford and a Pontiac rear narrowed, suspension was the air in the tires and the front spring and it was a rough ride!!!! We ran on pump gas 104 white pump Chevron as that who sponsered us. When the 409 was in the Impala 62 to 65 I loved it but I was very hard on rear ends, and I had one of each from 3:08 to 4:88. I could scatter the spiders at a stop light and have it back on the streets the next night with the next ratio or what ever I could find. I liked the 4:56 the best as it would hook up and go and the spiders lasted longer!! Atlas Bucrons were the shits back then as there were about the stickest we had for street tires. When I took the engine out of the Impala it was a 65 Corvette beat me so the Impala went up for sale and I bought a 65 Corvette (which is still in the garage and running )
Sounds Great................now buy my boat anchors if they are so great...........Or do you want them for nothing..............reminds me of a Super Bee hood I stuck a Pick Axe thru, because some lame ass, would only offer me $35. Yeah, I got my money out of it.................348 Boat Anchor Parts for sale...........any takers..........Step RIght Up............. Oh yeah, forgot, I grew up on the dragstrip from 1969 to 1976, did only remember one 409 that was competitive, the Golden Rod out of Bucyrus Ohio, and I know who owns it today.......
For those of you that have an interest in 348 & 409 W-Motors please join the rest of us on the H.A.M.B.'s W-Motor group. Post your stories, pics and info for others to enjoy. Thanks. Max Go here --> http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/group.php?groupid=125
Thanks, I like the look. You're correct on the PML's, but don't get me started on how hard the valve covers were to fit to the heads.
Actually - "Got my money out of the Super Bee Hood" (383 Ram Air Cable Operated and it was Black with White Scoops some weird option ..........But the expression on his face was worth the $19 I had in it. It was classic......... We then put the scoops on a 67 Chevelle after that to piss off the mopar guys...... You had to be there, I had plenty of witnesses, and I am sure the guy with the Belvedere, still kicks himself for not buying it. >>>oh, and no one said your 348's were GOLD. WE ARE TALKING ABOUT 409's I guess you think you 305 small blocks are as good as you 400's too.. No Not Gold. but ought to be worth more than 327 parts.............Idiot, why would I even discuss a 305 (unless a +302) or a 400.... I am in Ohio all the time...................
Watch a nostalgia race with Mr. 409 (Ken Walsh) or Wully Bully, I think you will have your answer. I hope everyone runs a SB in their rod as all the 09's will be for sale, lined up along the roadway like cord wood. I'll be the first one there to buy the boat anchor 09's....
409's are cool in there own right...no matter what you have to love the 409's, 406's, 413/426, 421 and 427's..I would have any of these cars and wouldnt give a sh*t which was faster. They all have their place and personality. Now I am 35 yrs old but my family has owned a 62 409/409 bel air..it was a great car but we have also owned 413/426 wedge cars and I will tell you there is a difference. I would choose the mopar if I really wanted to win. My old man once told me 409's when new had problems so they were shipped with double head gaskets. Guys that knew would install single gaskets..raise the compression and go faster.thats one reason some were "better" than others. Now we have owned 409's and max-wedge cars but the quickest factory street car from my experience was '68 Chevy Biscayne copo with a 425 hp 427 and 4 speed. A big car which hauled As*. Shocked the hell out of me. One good 409 story my pop told me was about a friend of his "Gaylord Mcarthy" They were at Harveys Boiler in Downey 1963..some guy wanted to race..had a 409. Gaylord had a 62 409/409 there. They raced and the other guy won..Gaylord told the guy to stay there and he would go get his Plymouth and race again.. the guy said sure go get your "Plymouth" thinking there wasnt one. Gaylords parents had some money..anyway, he went home and got his '63 baby blue 2 dr. post 426 Plymouth and shocked the guy..they raced and the 426 just ate the 409. My old man has owned mostly 426's ever since. I own a 62 Dodge . My point is I would have any of these motors..even if only for an anchor Anyway thats my .2
Really nice look, I always envied my buddy's dad, who had a factory stock '67 Slant back tudor sedan with a stock 409, but my advice is sell it to the eBay wanna-be's, and use their boo-koo excess $$$ to finance your small block, Hemi, or tricked-out Flathead. It's just not traditional.
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