How many horses does it take to kill a stock 40 Ford Banjo?

Gents,
New opportunity arises... I have a chance to pick up the front and rear suspension from a 40 Ford coupe. If I got it, I'd like to convert the banjo to an open drive but leave it stock depending on how much HP one of these little babies would take? It would also get a 4 bar in the back. Just wondering, Gary

 

whats your reason to use the banjo if your going to convert it to open drive and 4 link?
might as well use something already that way?

they're pretty strong though if you treat them right and keep the drums TIGHT!!!

 

Budget... perhaps the vintage look. I love the looks of a QC, but not the noise. Seemed like an el-cheapo compromise. Still taking suggestions! Gary

 

Depends on the application.

 

More or less than 200 ftlbs? 300 ftlbs? 100 ftlbs? Gary

 

Dad ran one behind a an injected SBC in a drag car, but it had the Mercury spider gears etc. as a mod. I'd say below 200 ft lbs of torque.

 

Thanx, Roothawg. Gary

 

Forty five years ago George Montgomery ran the same '40 - '48 rear ( with no Q/C ) behind a blown Caddy in his '33 Willys. It worked well for him......

 

Well, that's good enough for me. Plenty of margin for error (on my part!). Gary

 

45 years ago, the best slick wouldn't hook like a street tire does now days. And changing out broken parts weekly wasn't a big deal on race cars. I would be afraid to run one in a car that was gonna get "abused" once in a while.
.000000002
Larry T

 

Well said !

 

Jeez Louise, back to square one then. Gary

 

While it isn't like they can't be broken, the center section is substantially stronger than the keyed axles. There are some outfits that adapt later axles with pressed on bearings that substantially strengthen the overall unit.

 

Also depends on how big your right foot is!!!!!!!!!!

 

The best banjo would be the modified unit as AnimalAin<SCRIPT type=text/javascript> vbmenu_register("postmenu_3124183", true); </SCRIPT> described but they cost money and would blow the budget if you were thinking economy build.
In the long run it would be the cheapest best traditional way to go and look great and you could be confident it would hold up much better.

 

If you want 4~Bar & Open drive....Why Fuck up a perfectly good '40 Rearend ? Just get a 9" and be done.

I have a '46 Ford Factory open dirve on Cross spring & Old ladder bars in my Sports Coupe with a Hot DeSoto hemi.

Have snapped 3 drive axles & twisted 1 non~drive side axle.

Sure wish i woulda gone with the BIG OLDS rear end in the first place !

 

50 years ago we could not keep rearends in fords that had the 100 horse 59AB,axels would shear,gears would strip etc. Would be nice on a Restore but dont like horses.

 

About 40 years ago my warmed up flattie would snap axles now and then, or take out the trans. That was with some fairly narrow slicks. The axle gears never broke on me, though.

 

Get the hot rod works axle conversion or do your own and it'll be fine with a moderately hopped up motor, even if you beat on it ocassionally. If you're talking stock axles and keys, you better have lots of spares.

 

Movement at hub/axle joint will cause axle failure, either slowly or quickly depending on engine...A torque spec did emerge from Ford in the late '40's (torque specs for everything were not common much earlier), and it was around 200, WAY more than seems right. If this isn't realdamntight, drive is mostly by key which obviously can't survive much. Other factors now that the stuff is old would include wear where axle passes inner seal, perhaps flexing from long running with bad bearings/worn axle tubes.
Perfect fit of tapers is also important...if axle has been run with that nut not really tight, it will have moved there and surfaces will be shot. Obviously axle shims would be a catastrophe. People have been known to use one of the ultra grades of Clover and lap the surfaces there.
Probably best center would be original gears if in good shape with new precision bearings for tight fit...any extra gear lash is death.
I do not know much about traditional tricker here...A quickchanges certainly made it into the 9's, maybe the eights, and fuelers used banjos into the early '60's...heavy cars like gassers had to switch to Olds rears long before the light cars. A traction limit here is the width of a '40 wheel well...
It will probably survive quite a lot...but I agree: Once you've eliminated the torque tube, why not go to something cheaper and stronger?? The purpose of keeping the banjo with the attendant parts cost would seem to be the benefits to your suspension, solid location, free traction bar, and no bind. This is clearly superior to the easier aftermarket rplacement locators...but if it's gone, why the banjo??

 

Thanks for the "pre responses" from a threat I had in the works-planning stages.

I'm putting a 48 Lincoln Continental Banjo in a 31A roadster with a 406 tripower & a toploader OD trans(fordvan/PU) Prob 400HP & 425 FTLB torque. I think the ratio is 4:86-1. Open driveshaft conversion.

Will the Lincoln rear hold with some 8" street tires if I supply "some" throttle.

Don't mean to hijack the thread but it's so similar to my question.

Movin/on

 

Perhaps moving on... and looking for vintage alternates to the banjo... some time ago I had a chance at a 47 Ford truck diff. It was taken out of an old pavement modified. I think it was a 3/4 ton.

Perhaps that is the way to go? Gary

 

The 3/4 ton rear was the basis for Champ size quickchange, but used as-is it is limited to really low gear ratios. REALLY low, usually. I think 4.11 may have been available, buit that was rare and most are way lower than that, too low even with an OD trans...
The Lincoln rear shares a lot of visual similarities with Ford and a very few differential parts. I think ratios were 4.2something and 4.44, meant to be used with .7 overdrive.
It is a hypoid geared rear...low pinion...so possibly slightly stronger than Ford with more friction loss as payment.

 

Not too many. 8BA did this.

 

The Kookie Car had a Cadillac in it.

 

HERE IS THE REAL PROBLEM
Not the ring and pinion

 

The kookie car wasn't heavy.

 

The Banjo became obsolete for heavy drag cars about ten years before dragsters stopped using it...weight is a big deal, and became important as the new OHV's pushed normal displacements past 300 cubes and kept going UP.
What broke in the pictured one?? I have poor picture resolution, looks like welded spline came out of driveshaft??

 

What is the car and engine your using?
Figuring its the pickup in your avatar.

If your engine can spin the wheels, its easier on the rearend.
The weaker engines (like flatheads) hookup so they definitely twist those keyways.

So the combo of engine/ratio/rear-wheel + driving style effects that banjo.

I've got 2 in my current hot rods and they've never broke,
but i'm pretty easy on my stuff, just occasionally not like DESOTO.
TP