Volare clip advice?

So I'm looking at buying a older(85ish) dodge diplomat to fix my 84 ramchargers engine issues(motor swap-the 84 has finished off it's cam, timing chain, and the heads have given up and it has 50 psi of compression on the two back cylinders.) but I'm also looking at buying a 54 dodge regent to have as my cl***ic cruiser. I've checked it out and the width of the FMJ(volare, diplomats, etc had the same width) has the same width as the front of the 54. So I figured I'd strip the diplomat of all useable parts for the 54. So i was thinking maybe somebody might know or have some advice on how a guy would go about putting a volare clip under the 54? I'm thinking that as I want this done for winter(I'm going to end up giving the fiance the ramcharger for her winter driver and I would drive the 54) I'll put the volare clip under the 54's factory frame and make up a set of brackets that will bolt it to the car(will be professionally installed by pipefitters from my work) I'll also use the diplomats rear axle and install it with it's height according to how high the front ends up. I have a 79 dodge slant 6 and I'll steal the 904 auto from the 68 dart project in my garage for the car(both are good pieces that are in good shape) and I'll also use the driveshaft from the dart because the 904 and the driveshaft will be useless as a Viper V10 with a 6 speed will replace the stock slant auto combo.

So thats kind of the plan I want an old car to tool around with and I figure with the friends I have(I know a guy who has worked on tons of old cars) that I can have the car likely done as a roller in about 2 weeks and running in 3. Just not sure if my plans on the volare clip and the way i want to install it are plausible because of the limited info on the 50's dodge's

 

Tex Smith's book How to build hot rods and how to build hot rod trucks has info on installing these torsion bar front ends.....i may still swap one into my 55 Dodge 1/2 ton, but we'll see how the factory design works for now : )

Derek

 

I'll second the book by Tex, I believe the worst problem people have is the frame clearance(or lack of) around the steering box. I would also check on ball joint and bushing availability.

 

I don't know much about the 85's but the older K-members were different fron V-8 to 6 cyl on the mounts. You could not use one for the other.

 

I ran one in a 64 Ford pickup that I owned for awhile. Did not like it at all, ride was pretty harsh. I didn't do the install so I don't know if it could have been improved by a better install, also it was pretty close to the bottom of it's travel to lower the ride height which probably didn't help. But based on my experience I wouldn't have another.

 

Various bushing durometers by application, but one size fits all as far as torsion bar size would explain ride height and suspension harshness problems in a non stock installation. Using the T-bar as the strut rod also was also found to be not such a great (think bad) idea.

I too, like to use everything I can when I kick something in the head, but in this case I have to think there are far better solutions out there.

If you like the idea of the adjustable ride and lower unsprung weight that torsion bars provide, some of the later (73+) rubber isolated longitudinal T-bar front ends, with the exception of the rear torsion bar anchor crossmember, had everything attached to the K member including the upper control arms. And although most people shy away from them, if you can do a successful frame graft, a stout enough rear crossmember to mount torsion bar anchors should be child's play. The fact that the Chrysler longitudinal T-bar suspensions from 1960 on had some of the best geometries to come out of Detroit doesn't hurt either (compare their specs to contemporary GM F and A bodies of the time and you'll get the idea) and can still hold their own when equipped with modern shocks and bushings.

 

For clarity it's Tex Smith's Chr, Dodge,Plymouth Hot rod book, not the generic How to build Real Hot Rods book that has a Magnum to a 53 pick up article in it

 

Dodge Aspen, Diplomat, Plymouth Volare, and older LeBaron (I believe) all have the same front suspension. The widths should be the same. The K-members are different between the six and the eight engines. Check these guys out if you need to go that route.
www.engine-swaps.com/frames/frame_73upABFMJmount.html

 

I've benn running a Volare front clip in my 37 Terraplane Street Rod for 14 years. Never had any problums with it, nice ride, good handling. I also use a K-car power R&P steering.

 

I've done many Volare units on several vehicles. I did one on a 52 Dodge because the Owner insisted on it all being Chrysler. The combination ****ed! The coil spring sockets were a major blister. I ended up building a pair of frame rails out of 2"X3" tubing to make things go together. Never Again on a early Chrysler! I currently have a friend doing a S-10 on his Dodge SW. It's going together much nicer. If it rides and steers well, it would be the better choice. His car is not done yet so the Jury is still out. What ever you do don't M-2 your car.
The Wizzard

 

Too old and worn out.
They won't lay frame either without putting them on the bumperstops.
Ya might look at Jag sedan (XJS?) for a more modern solution. easy(er) instllation too.

 

Coil springs?

 

His 54 Dodge has Coil springs, Not the Volare.

 

Most Volare swaps end up incorrect with no alignment possibilties. You need a flat surface to mount them to which most 50s style frames don't have. The 53-56 Ford F-100s have a fairly flat frame bottom which is why that was a popular swap for many years. The last I knew, the main torsion bar to frame bushings weren't available. And remember, most pipe fitters are just that, not car builders. If they don't understand suspension geometry, you will have an empty pocket and an ill handling disappointing ride.

 

I think a 1st or 2nd gen Dakota frame would be a much better way to go. If you use anything other then the original suspension you are probably going to have to do some pretty hefty modifications on your original frame. Expect that. Gene

 

From the way this sounds it seem like the volare clip would be a poor choice for my 51 F-1. That ****s, I have one sitting in my garage ready to go under the frame.

 

Wrong...we put one under a F1 a couple of years ago ...it sits right and drives extremely nice.......it's not really that hard on a truck because the frames are pretty flat and straight since they had leafs up front. The F1 will require a notch in the siderail where the steering box sits and some clearancing up front for the torsion bar adjusters....but so what! Get Tiny on here to take a few pictures for you of his setup.

 

Or go to ford-trucks.com and look at the suspension tech threads, great info there. I have a Volare under my 53 F100 and am very pleased with it. Rides and handles well. My only complaint with the Volare is the size and location of the crossmember, it really makes it tight under the front of the engine compartment. But it was relatively easy to install, cheap to aquire, although I did go completely thru it with new stuff. I like it fine. Joe

 

I'm thinking the stock frame may be my best option. I like the coil spring setup. Maybe next year I'll 4 link the rear and air bag the ch***is.

 

I drive one of those 140 miles a day to work and back, best riding car I ever had. I'd use it if it fits. Keep the 318 too, why use the six?

 

I have 58 f 100 with a volare front clip, from what ford car can I get the axles from for my ford nine inch. Right now they are 5 on 5 bolt pattern with 28 spline shaft. Thanks

 

Back in the late 90s local salvage yards were buying up Volares just for the front clip. I remember seeing dozens sitting on pallets

 

The 50’s era Mopars has decent suspension, there are a few mods people do along with disc brake conversions I don’t see how Volare front end with all the work it take to install would be much of an improvement.

 

It’s that transverse torsion bar set up. Rode in a 34 Ford that had one, really nice riding car. There’s a lot of street rods built in the late 80s, early 90s that running it

 

Wow! Talk about dragging up an old topic!
I have installed several of the cross torsion bar clips under several different vehicles. The clips were called F, M, & J body clips because they were the front suspension Mopar used on pretty much all the rear drive cars that were updated after 1975. The last vehicles they were used on was the 88 Chrysler 5th Ave and and 88 Dodge Diplomat.
When they were properly installed they did provide a very nice ride, and actually worked pretty well, as long as the correct front end ride height was built into the vehicle when the clip was installed. The cross torsion bars were not capable of lifting up the front of a vehicle if they were too low. Installing them correctly usually required removing the vehicles original frame from the firewall forward, except the 50s Ford trucks, those you could build off the original frame to add the F,M, & J clip. For most other vehicles, the original frame's front coil spring pockets and the front cross member were in the wrong location to use the F, M & J clip, and that section of the original frame had to be removed. In my opinion, I believe the time for the F, M, & J clip has p***ed.

For years, a 1988-1996 Dakota frame clip was a better option if the 5 bolt 4 1/2" bolt circle wheel pattern was the desired goal. I should note here that the 91-96 Dakota had 6 bolt wheel pattern, but simply exchanging the 6 bolt rotor for the 5 bolt rotor was all that was required to swap back to the 5 bolt wheels. With the 97 and newer, changing just the rotors did not work, the wheel bearing design changed in 97. The 1997-2003 Dakota frame was a good subs***ute if you could live with the Dakota only 6 lug wheel bolt pattern. An S10 frame was another option, but those had a pretty narrow wheel track and most completed versions had the front tires sitting back inside of the fenders 6" -8" and didn't look good to my eyes, but some people liked that look.
Those Dakota and S10 frames are getting hard to find that are not all rusted out. A few of the imported small pickup frames could work as a frame donor.

Almost any thing build since 2000 has too wide of a wheel track (the width of the wheel mounting surface to wheel mounting surface), those front suspensions are simply too wide for most older stuff and put the tires outside of the older car body fenders. There have been a few attempts at narrowing the width of some of the modern bolt on suspension systems, but most have a lackluster outcome.

I am afraid we have now come full circle. Probably the best options on the old cars & trucks are to rebuild what is currently there and up date the brakes, shocks, and sway bars. Electric power steering is now an option for adding power steering to the old rides.
The next option is pretty much back to the Mustang II bolt on or weld on aftermarket suspension kits. Those kits may, or may not require cutting off the OEM frame at the firewall and building something new from there forward.

 

I built my F1 in the late 90s with a 5th avenue front drove it a fair amount since then. I have it cranked down & the rubber bumpers cut down it is notched into the frame for ride height. I like how it drives but does bottom out sometimes if you did not want it low it should ride great

 

Bottom line, when building your car pick your poison

 

I put one under a 47 International pickup. Road great, steered great with the PS, and the disc brakes stopped on a dime and gave 9 cents change.