Event Coverage O/T Barrett Jackson,Vegas is on SPEED.

When the prices have been artificially pumped up?
Sure, they can come back down a bit.

All this reminds me of the Classic Car prices in the late '80s ( I think thats when that was...)
Ferrari's and Cobra's, etc would almost double in price every year.

People that normally would buy and sell Krugerands, Paintings, or stuff like that would suddenly get interested in Old Cars.

And a lot of them did not know how to take care of them, storing them in damp warehouses, etc.

And having Modifications & Restorations done that fucked up the History.

After the Bubble burst, a lot of businesses went under with it.



If that is about to happen again, I guess we didn't learn from our ( very recent ) History....

 

It gets down to this .. With an old car / truck ..there is no true value other than scrap price , its all sentimental value

Do I think that a 70 Cuda should of ever been worth 300-400 k ? No I did not but, if they have dropped to 180-200k ..or less, few can still afford them .

I know this , this site is supported by sponsors of all shapes and sizes , if a car is worth less than 25% of what costs to build ..they "the sponsors" of this site and many car related events will not sell parts because people will then find another way to spend their time, younger people will never be able to build anything due to companys going out of business. events no longer being run cause no one will go, and on and on ..and its over

So while you are shaking your pom-poms for the car prices to fail and mankind be able to go to junk yards and drag old cars out for pennies

You might want to ask a few people that feed their family by ,selling auto parts, paint , tools, lumber stores to build garages, tire stores, aftermarket mfgs of all kind, etc..

 

In that time I was talking about, a lot of Damage was done.

By MoneyMen pretending to be Car People, and Car People that got Greedy.

After the Bubble burst, the prices eventually stabilised roughly where they would have been if the huge spike in the Value's had not happened.

Seems to me, a steady increase based what these cars are realistically worth, is much better for everybody that is into these cars for the Long Haul and for the Right Reasons...

 

Again, let me say it .. For those cars that were in the stars for the prices
for arguements sake lets say 1970 Hemi Cuda's cause everyone knows what that is ..

There are SO FEW of those cars around , and SO FEW could afford then (1970, or 1980 or 1990 or ..) that the "money men" were only playing amongst themselves ..

Now, did it drag a few other cars up in value with them ? Sure it did .but Barrett -Jackson only sells just so many cars per year ..Thinking they are souly responsible for the price increases is foolish IMO ..

To do a car right today , to make it look right, sound right ..etc takes labor ..if you are not capable to perform the task yourself labor=$$

I watched with interest a couple very,very popular cars on here done by very,very talented shops and without seeing the bills or being told by the
owner these cars are not cheap cars by no means labor-wise then you start adding in the rare/ unique parts and well. they seem like inflated prices but, they are not really .You start with an idea, a dream and the next thing you know the body shop hands you a bill that

I look at Fat Lucky's interiors and am amazed and I know that quality of work is not cheap .. I prefer to applaude the people that work hard enough to own a nice car or several of them and I'm not going to be jealous that someone else can buy a 1970 Hemi Cuda, cause I'll never (unless I win the lottery)

 

Big Dad
You said it your self ’’sentimental value”
The selling price of cars at action has nothing to do with parts manufactures going in or out of business. People were making a good living at it LONG before there was profit in finished cars.

Televising of this egotistical pissing match for rich guys has only served to tell every ass clown with a rusty old car or two outside his trailer and a TV inside that he’s now a potential millionaire.

Pricing most of the next generation out of the thing is just plain stupid.

 

First of all, I dont get the Hemi Cuda prices.

It was just a fucking Production Line built Car.

Unless a particular Car got some Racing succes, or something else to give it History is just one of many ( but with desirable options..)


And what makes something worth more is Knowledge.

Knowning its place in History, and what makes it cool.

A Ardun Head is worth its weight in Aluminum Cans to a Tweeker who's never seen one...

 

What gives them value is 10's of 1000,s of people wanting and them and there are just a few to go around "sentimental value"

Sadly ,many of them DID have race history ..when the market spiked about 5 years ago, those cars were drug out and retored as "low mile" cars ..Roger Gibson was getting somewhere in the neighborhood of 200k to restore them ..

I knew they had jumped the shark when I seen original, NOS oil filters bringing $1000.00 and more .. (no I'm not kidding)

Again the only people really affected directly were those same people you seen in the crowd with drink in hand ..

My mom collects old glassware she has enough to fill a 12 x 12 room to me its worth nothing but to a glassware collector I'm sure its worth 1000's
I remember when she started collecting it , it came free in a box of soap
so ..who ran the prices up on that stuff ? She has a butter dish she says is no worth 300 bucks ?? it was free ?? Old stuff goes up in value

 

I think you just made my point...

 

The real popular cars were accounted for already ..Most of the ones they restored were just some also rans

I know where there is one that has real history and is sitting on the same jackstands since 1983 ..

And the owner is 66 years old and it will stay there till he dies and then the kids will sell it off . cause they could care less about the car or his motherlode of cool rare parts ..

So, if thats a prefered route ..so be it

And, if anyone thinks that the car market failing will not affect suppliers you are sadly mistaken I assure you

 

Yeah, I think I can see where that 66year old Car Owner is coming from.


If what you said really happened, and Old Racers were Restored back into Factory Fresh Showroom Cars, then History was erased.

That is a Money Decission, not a Desission driven by the appriciation for that particular Car...

Which also reminds me of a story I've heard about an old Lotus GP car.

It had a really ugly repair to one of the front corners of the Spaceframe Chassis.

The new Owner/Collector ( '80s) had it removed and redone.

Trouble was... that repair was done By Lotus, inbetween 2 Races, after Jimmy Clark Crashed it.

History erased....

 

Anyways..... I, too, watch for the entertainment. Barrett/Jackson's practices, one way or another, gives me something to cure my "Car Fix" during the off season when I don't feel like gettin cold or dirty. Its like a Car show to me. One more Car program. That's all it is to me. Some people used to say how F---ed up America Hotrod was, and didn't like to watch. Car program, or NO car program. I'll take what I can get. I like it. And by the way, I really think the Black 69 Mustang Fastback w/SOHC 427cammmer was awesome. I'd own that.... Thats all.B

 

Yeah, that happened and much worse .. They were taking a "real car" and for whatever reason it was beyond restoring, lets say the real car was smashed in 1975 .. they new the accurate vin, they would then re-body the car and make a clone but some might of thought they had real, etc
real ugly shady crap

http://board.moparts.org/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=0&Number=4676251&page=0&fpart=1&vc=1

The link is long, good read ..lots of detail over one car that the guy got in trouble over with the officials and he never even built it and knew it was a fake ??
cliff notes, man wants car he can afford, man finds car, fixes car up, law finds him , he about goes to jail, lost allot of money in court sold car legally now, its back with the wrong vin tag again an they discuss it and all the legal issues ..

 

Isn't that sad?

Seems to me that is what happens when the Money becomes more important than the Car.

And yes, when the Bubble bursts, heads will roll.

( probably the wrong ones too,
Because if you are the one creating the Chaos, you can plan for it...)

 

these guys are making a killing at $1,500 a car+ 20% of all sales, holy shit!

 

Again , its a small amount of cars that seen the problems ..and a small amount of people that were doing it .

But, yes ..it went on and like that link, it was such a good fake,it fools the experts ..

I hope hot rods are still on the road the next 20-30 years thats all

 

This is reminding me of the classic car marked crash of the late 80's as Alex suggested.

I remember 435/427 corvettes hitting the $150,000 mark and falling to a realistic 60-70 thousand range in what seemed like over night. It took almost 20 years for those same cars to get back up to the big money and more but they are falling again and falling hard,

And yes B-J is purily intertainment in my book.

 

Greed + Ego = $man$.

 

Here's what was my Dad's car that he bought new in 1967. He sold it in 1975, it kicked around the country for years until it was restored in Florida a few years ago.
I found the original paperwork for the car (registration, window sticker, cancelled check for the $4700 purchase, assorted paperwork, service records, bill of sale, brochures, etc., etc.) after he died in 2002.
I thought that all this paperwork belonged with the car and its owner, if the car had survived all these years.
I contacted the Shelby owners club, and they put me in touch with the car owner that was last on their records.
The guy on their records (a few days later) called to say that the car was restored and that it just sold at Barrett-Jackson
for $222,000.
I contacted Steve Davis at Barrett-Jackson and explained that I had all this important paperwork that I wanted to GIVE to the current owner.
He said that Barrett-Jackson does not give out information about their clients. I told him that I didn't want the owners contact information, that I only wanted BJ to give MY contact information to him, so he could contact me to get the paperwork. He told me that I should send all the paperwork to him and he "would take care of it".
I still can't believe that he wouldn't forward my contact information to the owner.
If he owner of my Dad's Shelby knew that this had happened, he'd probably be really pissed off.
Well, I still have all the paperwork sitting in a drawer. I doubt I'll ever part with it now.
Oh, by the way, my dad's Shelby never had the white stripes on the top. I don't know if thats a big deal or not, but those are NOT original.

http://www.shelby-mustangs.com/1967-shelby-mustang-001.html

 

I've bout had an assfull of BJ. Watching those two fucktards up there counting their money, getting people to commit to "no Reserve" auctions, and giving them a short gavel while their own cars are crossing the same block and getting milked for 20 minutes. Tell shitstain to take his fucking sunglasses off inside, and tell fatass burying his dad's legacy to slow down his own hype machine and worry about taking care of the people in the collector car hobby instead of creating this fucking Zoo atmosphere. I've heard of "caveat emptor", what's the version of that that partains to the seller?

 

You gotta point there!

 

I agree with Big Dad on what he says. I make a living manufacturing/ wholesale Mustang parts form 65-73. If it wasnt for the way these prices have gone up and alot of new people being interested in them I probably wouldnt have have a job or the company wouldnt be as big as it is.

I think part of the reason the cars were down was beacuse when I went it looked to be me like there where REAL car guys buying cars and not the yuppie I have a bigger dick than you bidding.

I am not trying to defend Barrett-Jackson in any way but they also and I can atest to this because I have seen it is they do give alot of money to several charitys too. Probably for the tax write off but still I guess it is the thought that counts.

 

I'm not defending Barrett-Jackson either ..
My point is (was) to not celebrate the collectable car market dropping like a stone ..

Many people are employed that are directly affected by the values . The big wheels there buying,, , those are not my concern .

 

Just wonderin'........Who is Ron Pratt (the guy who does'nt crack a smile after another winning bid) and how did he make his fortune??

 

Old cars have value as transportation, just like new cars do. But people like to overlook that, with the opinion that old cars are just toys.

I do agree with a lot of what you are saying though.

As for those who think the market is "dying off" for this old stuff, I see plenty of younger people who love these cars as much as, if not more than, the old guys who had them when they're new. I'm 27 and I have tons of this shit, even though I got my driver's licence in 1996.

Barret-Jackson is a TV show. It's fun to watch but I don't consider it an accurate look at the hobby.

 

Ron Pratte is the CEO of Pratte Development Company in Arizona. Here is the link to the merger with Pulte Homes that sent him into kajillionaire land.

http://www.buildingonline.com/news/viewnews.pl?id=2805

 

<TABLE class=tborder style="BORDER-TOP-WIDTH: 0px" cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR title="Post 3220986" vAlign=top><TD class=alt1>Ron Pratte is the CEO of Pratte Development Company in Arizona. Here is the link to the merger with Pulte Homes that sent him into kajillionaire land.

http://www.buildingonline.com/news/viewnews.pl?id=2805 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=thead colSpan=2>Today 08:51 PM

Ron Pratte must have quite the collection, he seems to buy quite a few cars at each auction. I would hate to be bidding and see him bidding on the same vehicle. I think I would drop out of the bidding!
</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

 

Isn't it a conflict of interest when the President of Barrett-Jackson bids on a car?

 

I thought it was a bit sleazy for him to pump up an otherwise Plain Jane Mustang just because the money was going to a foundation. I was hoping he would get stuck with it rather than some other guy paying over double the price. It had died at about 20K and wound up at 50K.

 

As already said ... the prices were down.
I believe the quality was down also.

I find no pleasure in seeing the prices go downward ... due to the economy or whatever the reasons were ... BUT maybe, just maybe ... every bozo with a wore out, rusted up piece of a automobile will stop thinking his " prize " is worth a ton of money.

We are in a serious recession and headed for a depression IMHO. A lot of the folks who second mortaged their homes and went 110 % into debt for the " must have Harleys and HotRods " are going to be in DEEP TROUBLE. This will affect the shops that build cars and the folks who sell parts also. It will also trickle down to the true hobby guys ... because if the parts are not as available ... our builds will be affected also.

Smart money is sitting back and waiting to see out the November election goes.There are two very different candidates running for President. Both with very different ideas about the economy and the security of our nation.

I am not speading any extra money ... and trying to maintain what little I have. I am in fairly decent shape and can ride out all but the worse economic failures. I believe there are going to be a LOT of cars and parts for sale at greatly reduced prices in the next few years

 

I looked for signs of that at the Pomona Swap Meet yesterday - unfortunately, the "bozos" don't seem to be reading the handwriting on the wall like you do - asking prices by and large were still waaay too high!