Whats the best auto body primer and paint (besides lacquer) that can be sprayed with a normal face respirator and not a fresh air system. I can't afford to pay someone to paint my car but I don't want kill myself doing it either. I've read up on the posts on here about isocyanate safety and it is truly scary ****. I was looking at the hotrodflatz but I think I would rather have shiny. Does anybody know brand names and such of isocyanate free paints.
Yes, but i'm concerned about longevity of that stuff. is it durable? The pictures on their website do look impressive.
i use Auto Air exclusively. i love it. the longevity has everything to to with the UV protection afforded by the clear coat.
You still have to put a "good" clear over the waterborne colors. If you're that worried, lacquer or old fashioned enamel (either synthetic, or acrylic) without a hardener, are the options. Lacquer is easiest, but more time consuming. More coats necessary, and in the end, you can sand and buff for a dynamite finish. Gets brittel over time, and may crack, craze, and spiderweb. Not chemical resistant, so gas spills hurt it. Old enamels, without hardener, have a long dry time, so you have to spray it in a clean place, and either bake it, or leave it for a while to dry. You can't go back over it too soon (months) or it will wrinkle. Synthetic stays soft for a long time. Acrylic is better (Centari) overall. the paint is heavy and goes on wet, so it's easy to run for a beginner. And NOT easy to fix the runs. Single stage metallics are VERY difficult in enamel. But a lot of guys still spray iso containing paint with charcoal respirators. Not recommended, but if you're only doing it once, and have a NEW respirator, and use it properly, it should be OK.
Hey, Just so you know, ALL paint materials are toxic to one extent or another! A good resperator alone, won't protect you from exposure. Every pore of skin on the human body is a window to your vital organs. Be carefull & good luck with your paint job. S****ey Devils C.C. "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
Most paints still contain isocyanates, I spray everyday with a charcoal respirator, and so do most people that work in a body shop. The fresh air system is extremely expensive, and a pain in the *** to wear. It is much safer, but the reality is that 99% of auto body painters do not have access to the fresh air equipment. You will be just fine, just use the respirator correctly and make sure you have plenty of ventilation. Also another cheap insurance is to by a tyvec suit, this will not only help with dust and dirt but it will keep your skin covered and help to prevent you from absorbing isos through your skin
DuPont still makes real enamel. If you use it it will look like paint on an old car is supposed to look. That is of course your aren't trying to get that old show car look in which case you need to use laquer 7 coats hand rubbed and 7 coats of clear.
You are fine spraying todays products with a charcol element respirator provided it fits properly and hasn't been utilized past it's life cycle and is changed accordingly. For you a 3M 7192 or 7193 should do the trick. When its not in use please store it in an air tight container or bag. Painters in Bodyshops wear these everyday. Try to get as much of the overspray fumes out as possible, good air flow will limit exposure.
Not really! For example: gloss hardeners for synthetic and acrylic enamels are iso based. POR-15 also contains iso's. Polyurethanes, too, if that wasn't obvious.
don't worry about it... as long as you smoke a cigarette as you spray the filter will filter all the bad stuff out... for real! .... I learned this from a tobacco company website!
Wear the best respirator you can afford and a paint suit and youll be fine. I have a 3M P95 I think? and I change the filters every other job. Spraying the stuff one time isn't going to kill you. Ventilate the area well and go outside, or out of your booth between coats.
yes really!!! Urethanes, polyurethanes, etc...all the same the chemistry is revolved around isocyanates and polyols. Acrylic enamels are a completely different chemistry and do not use isocyanates. Por 15 is a urethane.
Re read his comment, GLOSS HARDENERS for acrylics do contains ISO's I hope you're not painting with P95 filters, the white fluffy ones? P95 is just a particulate filter, and does NOTHING to filter organic vapours or isocyanates.
Really now it is not that bad, I have been spraying cars for the last 10 yrs and look at me no problems at all, I don't think i look bad for 40 !!
Thats the truth. youll be fine. most waterborne paint systems still use solvent based clears and primers anyhow, so whats a little base? glasurit(sp?) is the only line i know of with a full waterborne system and the stuff is awesome, just expensive. BMW's color system is the nicest paint i have ever sprayed and it is waterborne, cheap, and you can get it at the parts counter at your BMW dealer. good stuff. ----happy painting.
The painter i had working for me has isocyanate poison ,in a wheel chair and all done before 45 . Didn't use a fresh air system, and didn't believe in gloves when he cleaned his spray guns. WOULDN'T happen to him.Takes a minute to be safe and the rest of your life to be sorry.
Yep, I just checked to be sure. 3M 7192. P95 filter recommended for paint and organic vapor. I think you're thinking of N95. The white fluffy elastic band ones. This is a dual cartridge half face respirator.
ask your paint supplier what mask/filters you need for their paint.I sprayed Sherwin Williams Polane 3 years daily with a resperator and 2 stage filters.Can't remember the Description/Part# but they were for Isocyanates and had an 8 hour life once the origional package seal was broken,Not use it 2 hours bag it for a day then use it again for another 6.Once that seal was broken those filters were junk in 8 hours period that was direct from the manufacturer and Sherwin Williams both.Was also told no matter how long the filters were in use if you could smell the product you were in danger and should change the filters at once.A young painter at my cousins body shop painted 1 car with imron with out the proper resperator and totaly destroyed his respritory system spent many ,many months in the hospital then in a wheel chair and on oxygen because he couldn't breath right on his own
I just painted a car in my garage with urethane and a hardner, they have all the really bad stuff in them. N95 mask, filters good for 4 hours. If you can find a painter you trust, take your car to them. Painters earn their money.
So what about the old style acrylic laquer? It seems to be more work with the buffing and polishing but I notice that tcpglobal sells a clear thats supposed to make it last longer. See my car sits outside and i've read that the laquer will not last in the elements or on a daily driver. My car is my daily. My take is that 8 coats of hand rubbed gloss black is for show cars only.
I painted acrylic laquer at home on my previous car, did the sanding and buffing and it was show quality. I sold the car relatively soon, I do not know how well the paint stood up. It was a limited use Hot Rod, kept inside always, Sunday driver only. Cant beat urethane with a hardener if you are going to leave it outside.
With all the talk of poisons, I wonder why not use acrylic lacquer? And of course use a filter/mask. It seems I've seen some old lacquer jobs that looked pretty good. And I know they have to be buffed, etc., but why not? Didn't GM use lacquer for a long time?
Northern states and cool climates seam to be kinder to lacquer. Down in the hot south they don't last and will "check" if they see a lot of outdoor time. My 2c
Yes the GM paint cracked and crazed. If you are going to leave the car outside, at least use enamel, it requires care in application at home, but you get to avoid some of the more exotic poisons. Eurethane with a hardner and a good mask is the best method for home painting when you intend to leave the car outside, IMO, if you want the paint to last. Laquer is for indoor cars.
Lacquer has its ups and downs. For one it is kinder to the lungs and seems to do better in dusty or unfavorable shops. It is fairly easy to spray, but it is very labor intensive. Those old school lacquer jobs you see have countless hours in them color sanding between coats and keeping up on the finish afterwards. It requires maintenance once the job is completed to keep it looking good. One definite con is everything Chopolds mentioned. It simply will get outperformed day in and day out by any urethane or even catalized enamel job.
Hey, Don't be head****ed into thinkin' that simply because an automotive finish doesn't contain an isocyanate that a serious health risk isn't involved! Acetone,ketones,toluene & xylene are all known or suspected carcinogens! All of these solvents have a healthy appe***e for human liver, lung, kidney & brain tissue! A BIG CLUE HERE: real resperators, for spraying automotive finish products ARN'T sold in hardware stores. A half face mask, properly fitted, with the proper filters, is very cheap insurance against serious health problems. I wish I would have been able to fully understand this when I was 16-25 years old and knew it all! Good luck, and always be careful S****ey Devils C.C. "Meanwhile, back aboard The Tainted Pork"
The issue with most chemicals is that you never now how long your body will tolerate it. You might be lucky and abuse something for years and then one day it bites you hard. One of my co-workers retired medically disabled in his 40s from cleaning solvents. Sure he scores a government paycheck every month but his life is ****. Might as well play Russian Roulette its just as predictable.
one of the big dangers from isocyanates is that it is a sensitizer. basically, it causes a really extreme allergic reaction (in this case.. an allergic reaction in the lungs, and extreme as in "you could be extremely dead"). a quick search of sensitizer on the msds glossary tells us that this allergic reaction happens after repeated exposure. notice, they didnt say how many is "repeated". so, you could blissfully use the product many times without incident, and out of nowhere.... its not a slow buildup like smoking, it can be quite sudden and acute. i also wouldnt be fooled by the repeated part. i have heard of people being sensitized upon the first contact. it really depends on your body. also... respirators are awesome, but they need to fit properly to do thier job. i had to wear a respirator for my former job, and we were fit tested yearly.
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