My Fiat Gasser idea has been shot in the foot

The lack of freedoms in Australia has resulted in over regulation of EVERYTHING, and thus unless the car is pre 1948 you will never register it if it has major modifications, that is unless you have many thousands of dollars to have it engineered. And even then, adding a straight front axle to anything that didn't come with one is out. I should have known, they wanted $3000 to engineer the bike I built the misses and all I did was add a hardtail. And when I say engineer, I mean just look at it and sign a piece of paper that allows you to register it on the street. No wonder they drink so much here, their not allowed to do anything else.
CHarley

 

Wow, that just sucks!

Sounds like you guys need a SEMA type association down there.

 

That sucks!
Can you get it registered in it's stock form and then start changing things, or will they shoot you down for that as well? Does that include changes to the body as well or just the suspension?

 

Build an Abarth OT replica - then tell them its an original with the 155hp twin cam. Surely thats legal? Cloning a production car?

I get the same shite here in Germany. Its a real PITA.

This from Wikipedia...

"Abarth 1600 OT <dl><dd>An Abarth version of the Fiat 850 was made. Even thougth the Abarth O.T 1600 had the same body as the Fiat 850, they had only a few things on common. The O.T 1600 featured a 4cylinder 1592 cc DOHC engine and either a 4 speed manual or close-ratio 6 speed manual gearbox. The fuel was delivered by two double Weber 45 mm carburettors. The engine was still in the rear, but was now putting out 155 hp (116 kW) and 144.3 N·m (106 lb·ft) at 7600 rpm, but the red-line was at a staggering 9000 rpm.</dd><dd>The body had been reinforced to cope with the dramatic power increase. The fenders had been made bigger to cope with extend wheel gauge and bigger tires which was mounted on lightweight rims. The suspension had been toughened to handle the extra power and increase handling performance. To make sure that the Abarth O.T 1600 could stop again, it now featured disc-brakes on all wheels. Furthermore the interior had been updated with i.e. racing seats.</dd><dd>But taking a family car and tripling the power can give some issues. The huge engine could easily overheat when doing urban driving. Under heavy breaking and in windy conditions the car could also tend to be unstable. The noise from the engine also made it impossible to have conversation. Due to the location of the engine and the bigger tires at the back, the car could tend under steer."</dd></dl>

 

Sounds like Connecticut Get some repair plates!

 

Thats what I will end up doing, it makes for a real wheelie monster if ya cut out some of the extra steel in the front, gotta have some fun somewhere.
Charley

 

how about using a model A frame. Then its a Model A, with another body.
Lars

 

Toss it togather stock register it and then go crazy!

 

How did they get that date ? Anything to do with souped up FX Holdens ?

 

Here goes another "detail" post.
In the US of A, Fiat Topolinos were never legal for Gas Class.
All were either Altered or Comp Coupe class.
Since you wanted to build a street driven hot rod, non of that makes any difference, but the devil's in the details.

 

1948? I dunno, I have had to get some of my pre 48 cars engineered, it depends on the amount of mods you want to do.
1964 was the first year of the Australian Design Regulations (ADR's) Thats the rules the government introduced to take all the fun out of modifying cars. They were to ensure a minimum of safety in all cars by establishing a standard everything had to be built to. They allow a small amount of modification to all cars post 64 but leaves a grey area for pre 64.
1948 seems to be an arbitrary year used to illustrate a point. It all comes down to how well you know the ASRF rep and the RTA inspector and how deep your pockets are.
Take a look at Rod Hadfields 'Rat rod' T coupe, do you think anyone else in the country could get full rego with that car? Not fucking likely!
Its a no mans land in pre 64 modified cars, one inspector will pass a car and the next wont, often one will accept a certain mod but then the next inspector wont on the same car.
But then they will accept the same thing on the next car, there is no continuity or consistency in it. A real no mans land.
Yeah a SEMA like organisation sounds good but the government wouldn't listen to them and if they did it would be as convoluted as the SR rego scheme.
Doc.

 

Damn,thats exactly like over here.Always "gotta know somebody"...
I vote for the "register stock and modify the shit out if it,the very same night" too.
Cause thats what i always do.Just give it a kind of stockish look at first glance and the cops will never know!
All kinds of tricks here,like:"I'm sorry its an old car,suddenly i cant open the hood.Get that fixed,i promise"haha..
Or i invented the "relettering the tires" thing....loctite is your friend there..
"what a wide 195"..yeah..LOL
etc..

don't give up(big brother is a f...er),
Lincolnolli

 

Thats just plain sneaky! I like it!!

 

The 1948 cut off is because that is the traditional split between hot rods and "street machines" . When it was formed the NSRA implemented that year due to the fact that it was the last for most cars to have separate fenders (that is pre "shoebox" style). Even though we are now 60 years down the road and what were new cars to us old farts when we were getting into the scene are now older than the original hot rods were when they were built.
Think about it, in 1948 a 32 Ford was only 16 years old. Now tri 5 Chevys are more than 50 years old and a huge number of car guys are even post muscle car era. I was talking to one of the younger crew guys at JFR today and mentioned that I made my first trip to the US in 1984. He replied that he was not even born then.
You can still do a straight axle car in Oz. One of my mates in Sydney (Rod Andrews) built the Dart Attack gasser/early funny car style street machine so it can be done, you just need to want it enough.

Roo

 

obviously the Aussies need another revolution, their government is just as bad as the brits where to them, why did they let that happen? lack of spines?

 

I've never had a single issue with anything I've tried registering...including a car with Hydros, my 65 comet which now has a 14 to 1 small block in it, every daily (lifted and lowered)...every time I was pulled over, it was because I was speeding or my seat belt...

 

Another revolution? Thats a bit strong - people still remember the terrible events leading up to 1769 and some ask if it was worth such a high price to overthrow British Imperialist tyranny.

 

I guess that explains the goofy mods on the Chevy in Mad Max... the "injector" pipes on the hood that were just bolted on... because real ones aren't allowed?

 

You mean like this????

 

I think it depends on what sort of rego you're looking for, and which state in Australia you live in.

The 1948 date was selected, as rooman said, because it was the last year for running boards and separate front fenderds on 'old' cars and the beam front axle and transverse spring under Ford passenger cars. The date was selected in about 1967, so it certainly was relevent at the time. The Australian rodders have worked long and hard over many years to get rods legally registered for road use, their success has been different in each state.

You certainly can't throw any old body shell on any old chassis and drop any old V8 in it and drive it on the street. Whatever you build has to comply with all the basic safety requirements. Full, (unlimited use) rego is extremely hard to get on a modified car in Australia. Classic, vintage, hotrod and other 'collectable' cars all have limited use rego schemes.

'Street rod' registration is available in all states, and requires different levels of engineers or safety rep reports depending on which state you're in. The amount of driving you can do on limited rego also varies from state to state.

Your Fiat, (if a Topolino) should be able to be registered on rod rego, depending on what year the body is claimed to be. (1950's Fiats are similar to the 'classic' ones used for drag racing.) The later ones won't be acceptable as they're clearly not pre-1948 cars, and the rules apply strictly to pre-48. Cars like Ford Prefect, Anglia, Austin A40, etc, that were used in drag racing as gassers all comply with pre-48 rego rules even though many of them were built in the 1950s. As long as the original body style was built prior to 1948 they're apparently acceptable.

There was a Topolino on NSW rod rego with a single centre seat, spoke mags on the front, (with brakes) and a blown hemi in it. I think it ran 10's at the drags and was 'street legal' as far as limited rego would allow. It even had the chute on the back, on the street.

Cheers, Glen.

 

All the cars in Mad Max were thrown together just for the movie on a very limited budget by a bunch of incredibly talented set crew, all car nuts but hardly an 'expert' among them.

Oh yeah, and don't get caught driving a highly modified 'stocker' on the street. They'll fine you, disqualify your licence and possibly crush the car.

"It's stock officer, honest" used to work in the 60s, but not any more.

Cheers, Glen.

 

I feel your pain. Its a case of bureaucracy gone mad over here. Its not a case of bolting together a rod and as long as it goes, stops and steers the way it should then you get rego, which is how it should be, you have to have an engineer it. I had to engineer a big block into my daily driver because regardless of the fact that they came out with them stock over there in the states because we only got 6 cylinders factory that is all that is legal. Even getting a ride registered stock and modifying is iffy as it comes down to the interpetation of the police on the side of the road, despite 90% of them have no idea of what they are looking at if it looks modified then you will get defected.

Us Aussie rodders need to stand up for ourselves and overhall the rules, the street rod rego scheme is fine if you what to ask every single time you want to drive, but what use is that, I'm building my rod so I can drive it whenever I want to.

Unfortunally I can't give you much advise on how to get around it because I am still working on it myself, but QLD is the toughest state to get them registered in

 

Rules are there for a reason
I have been involved in Hot Rods Customs and modified cars for over 35 years and at the moment we have possibly the best set of rules to work with
At times it is hard to accept some of the things that not alowed, but you can ask why.

I lash out many years ago when I had a car refused for registration, on a couple of small points. The inspector was pissed at my attitude to him and the rules, but he showed me one of many files they had on cars that had been refused registration. what was in the photos was some of the most frightening things I have ever seen.
And later when I had my own shop it becave very clear that a lot of people have a very small grasp of what is needed to perform safe conversions of any type.

That does not mean the car did not operate with the work that was performed, but it was only a matter of time before a major failure would cause possible damage.

The first thing to do before rushing out and starting something is to contact one of the recognised engineers on the list in every states registration department.

They will give you an honest answer on what you are wanting to do, and if it can be done

Our systems allow us to have legally registered and insured cars.

 

@Pir8Darryl:Yeah!Thats my favorite..LOL....the washing powder scene,and the "drink" after that..hahaha!!

Lincolnolli

 

Well, I was kind of being a smart ass, given the script called for the car to be destroyed later, but the rules there do seem pretty restrictive.

For us dumb Americans, by Engineer you mean some officially qualified person has to inspect the car and OK it for the road?

 

Krikey! (someone had to say it......)

 

unfortunately 52% of us have started that same snowball rolling here in canameximerica.

"they'll get my hot rod when they pry my my cold, dead hands from the steering wheel" (from somewhere in the state of jefferson.

 

I was one of the guys that used to bitch about the rules in Oz but after coming to the US and seeing some of the totally unsafe crap on the streets here I can see their point. The so called "rat rod" movement has only made it worse due to the fact that a bunch of clueless idiots think that crude is cool.
When I first got involved in rodding and drag racing in the mid 60's some of the stuff that we built was not up to the standards that I work by now but at least we were busting our arses to try to do it right. I see a lot of crap out there now that is crude for the sake of being crude.
When I see hardware store bolts holding suspension together, chicken shit MIG welds laying on top of the metal rather than having any real penetration, and totally wrong steering and suspension geometry I wonder what the owner/builder is thinking about his own safety, let alone that of whoever he might run into when it all falls apart.
One of the biggest problems that I see in recent times is that the ready availability of what for us was high end fabrication equipment many years ago has created a bunch of "instant" fabricators and some of them are doing this for a living without any knowledge of the consequences of some things that they are doing. That problem is compounded by their customers who do not know any better and are relying on the shop to guide them.
Having a TIG "welder" does not make you a "weldor". A case in point, the Winged Express crashed at Bakersfield a couple of years back because the king pin boss broke off the left side of the front axle. The welds were real pretty but had absolutely no penetration, and this on a car the regularly runs over 200 mph and does wheelstands as well.
Some of the Aussie restrictions are a little strange at time but the quality of the cars down there far surpasses those here if you average out the good and the bad.

Roo

 

What would happen if you "bought the car from out of country"?
Would that be a way around rego?
Just a thought.

 

ROO

Glad you made the comment about component and skill related problems in Rod building.

This is a problem in no matter what country you are in, our rules and regulations combined with the inspections required for getting whatever you choose to drive registered limits the chances of substandard parts and work getting onto the roads.

Any car imported into Australia has to comply and pass our registration inspections.

Depending on age, modifications and the overall condition. Some need minimal work and fitment of safety components to comply. Some i have personally seen, needed almost total rebuilding and a couple have been broken up for parts because the cost to repair and make roadworthy exceded what was concidered to much

From what I have been reading, and hear from guys I know in the UK. Their registration system for Rods and modified cars is about to get harder than anyone expected.