Maybe O/T: Is Detroit dead?

The UAW has been making concession a far back as 1992, backing down on a strike against GM, and later on one against Caterpillar in 2005.

The Unions give and give and give. All this stuff is available out in the ether of the internet.

How much more should a worker give? I have been out on strike once, it SUCKED. I want and need to work as much as the next guy but you have to draw the line somewhere.

I'm out on a medical right now, and I get money each week because my UNION NEGOTIATED a wage for people out on temporary medical. I'd of lost my home by now if I wasn't Union. Do you think my employer would hold my position for me if I wasn't Union?

I guarantee the suits have never had to choose between paying the electric bill or the garbage bill. I guarantee that the suits have never had to worry about how to get their kids what they need. It's time for the playing field to be evened out a little, and I hope at the end of the day that the UAW prevails this time, because if they don't, there won't be a car made in this country that would be worth a damn.

 

i didn't read the whole thread, i get the theme.

why is it ok to cut the retirement for retired autoworkers? what are these people going to do? after 20,30,40 years of service this is what they face? are a bunch of 70 year old people going to run out and get new jobs? are you going to pay their bills? when this new way to "cut cost" catches on are your parents going to live with you? what about when your ready to retire? every american should be fighting this tooth and nail, because your next.

cut the autoworker's pay? they make too much money? do you make too much money? i guess it depends on which side of the fence your on. we have a toyota tundra plant about 20 miles away. it was THE job to get when it first arrived. i've talked to several people that have worked there over the years. they do a full back ground and credit check before your considered for employment. everyone that works there is young slim and fit. i've heard many storys from people i know personally that don't have a lazy bone in their body. the speed of which these people are asked to work is just silly, and their doing it for "less" money and with fewer employees. is the future of america to copy the japanese that are copying us to begin with? is this the future of the american worker to work more for less money? is that your goal?

we are the biggest consumer of goods in the world. what if we were making all these goods we are consuming? wal-mart pukes chinnese shit out the front door as quick as it's brought in the back door. we love it, can't get enough of it. it's cheaper. how much did we save? ask some of the recently laid off workers. ross perot said in the early ninetys that if we passed nafta, we would hear a giant sucking sound, the sound of all our jobs being sucked out of the country. do you hear it? not only can you not hear it, you think it's our fault.

i've been avoiding this thread for some time, knowing what i was going to find. all you experts sit around watching cnn and fox news and regurgitating what you hear without thinking it through because it's cool and the in thing to hate on america. gm, ford and dodge have built this country your living in, for 100 years these "pieses of shit" have managed to get the job done. instead of believing all the bull shit you see on tv, do your own research. my dad used to tell me something when i was a kid "boy, use your head for something other than a hat rack" .

 

well said brother well said

 

So the forum for "old cars" has become the new forum for what's wrong wtih the companies that build "new cars".

OK.

1- CEO's aren't smart enough to run a profitable company.

2- CEO's ARE smart enough to get $$$$ from government.

3 - Union workers aren't at fault because they have made concessions in the past while they have actually worked slower as instructed by management.

4 - Union workers ARE at fault because they make too much in the way of wages and benefits despite having health issues related to the job.

Ok, Got it.



I always thought that if the head guy couldn't maintain a profit for the company, that it was bad for me.

Either the head guy was no good or a crook. Never occured to me that he might be both.

The H.A.M.B. has again enlightend me.

 

Well I,m for anybody thats doing good and works a non union shop, Ive told friends that were talking about voting for a union that if yer doing good and its a safe, good paying, [some making more than union] goodbennies, and not any big problems that they dont need a union. Contract union workers get more bucks for workin outta town etc. but like em or not unions set the pace they,r not perfect but if they go away, all that stuff will be harder to come by. And by the way its not the union reps ass you will need to kiss.

 

The Amercian Auto Industry as a whole is NOT DEAD. The auto industy up North is dead however. You can thank the unions for that. Once Ford, GM and Chrylser go into bankruptcy, they can get out from under thos horrible costs and they will move South, South East and South West where the labo costs are fair. Just my opinion.

 

If you want to blame somebody, blame Bill Clinton. He's the one that relaxed the banking regulations so more people could by homes they couldn't afford. When he destroyed all of the regs that Roosevelt put inplace to recover from a depression he just set the stage for financial disaster. Then he got together with his buddies and put all of these substandard loans in a package and had them declared triple A bonds so Wall Street would buy them. When they figured out what had happened, the bubble burst and everybody was in a shit storm. We have been running on plastic way too long.
As for the big 3, how benovelent these CEO's are, working for $1 per year. These are the same assholes that caused the problem in the first place, why let them keep their hands in the cookie jar? The big 3 need to file Chapter 11 and reorganize, that's what any other business would have to do. The unions need to help bail the water or go down with the ship. The time for pissing contests is over. In order for things to get better we all have to get better. I'm getting tired of all these assholes that think the world owes them a living. What happened to that great country that used to work together for a common cause?
We send $30 billion a year to the middle east for oil and we will never see that money come back here. Lets solve the energy problem and quit sending money away.
The reason Detroit has to add all the bullshit to new cars is because of these asshole liberals that think we need to protect us from ourselves. Isn't it about time we threw a little Chlorine in the gene pool?
Lets all take a little responsibility for this mess, quit complaining and do something about it.

 

What horrible cost? u sound like the union's held a gun to their head and forced the big 3 to provide a decent wage and good benifits. wake up this all comes down to miss management. All you non union places get ready,with out union shops providing a good wage scale you employer will be able to cut your wages and benifits with a out a fight.wake up america all you have to sell is your labor why no get the most for it.

 

I am retired from Ford. Go easy on the union please.

 

I'm in my second week of being permanently let go from Delphi Automotive in Kokomo, IN after 13+ years. I can't say that in the course of working that I ever felt as if there was any feeling of job security, especially in the last 5 years. I had almost 4 months of knowing it was coming so I had time to get my job search under way.
I think everybody working for a company should get their stuff in order just to be prepared in advance, just in case, and have a plan B around the corner if at all possible.

 

Divide and conquer, fight amongst yerselve's. Blame the worker-bee's for being greedy. The union's for 'excessive demand's', and the wayyyyy over paid CEO's. Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain, pulling the string's, the great OZ has spoken.

 

while the message may seem a bit angry and pointed, this information is very accurate. While the situation with the unions and the big 3 is in need of some adjustment, the real problem with the industry is lack of sales. Lack of sales was caused by lack of credit. Lack of credit was caused by the overreaction to the housing and credit card issues. This was all brought about by the loose credit standards by Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac. This was MANDATED by the Clinton administration as there effort to help reach the goal of 70% home ownership by Americans.

First off, that goal was BS. Not even practical. Another story in itself. But it all came tumbling down. When home values plumented, equity disappeared and you know the rest.

This is really the root of the current financial problem with the Big 3 and it all leads to reduced sales. The Japs are going through the same problem and we here rumbling of financial belt tightening there as well.

In conclusion, we have two issues that came together in crisis: lack of sales caused by tightened credit and the whole deal with the legacy costs of the Big 3 and their employees.

 

You don't think lack of sales has anything to do with the gas price vs. the offerings? The credit deal and foreclosures certainly are factor but the low sales have been going on longer than the credit mess.

In the early 90's I had a couple cars to choose from that got 50mpg. What are my options now? The stupid Smart car only gets 35mpg. So does my 14 year old Geo (with a back seat and trunk).

These companies need to be more dynamic and figure out how to make money on a cheap car.

 

wrong, Clinton was the President and the Republicans were in control of the house and the senate....geez. funny I don't remember having all of these problems back in the 90's...

 

Uh oh. Facts are creeping in here. If theres anything that pisses a republican off its a fact. No place for them here.

 

gm currently produced 10 models that exceed 30mpg

 

And they can't sell them, to the brain washed masses that want foreign brands.

 

Better check your facts, Clinton proposed those changes in 1993 and got them passed in the:
103rd Congress (1993-1995)
Majority Party: Democrat (57 seats)
Minority Party: Republican (43 seats)

 

We call them "road bans" up here.

 

Thomas Jefferson
I sincerely believe that banking establishments are more dangerous than standing armies, and that the principle of spending money to be paid by posterity, under the name of funding, is but swindling futurity on a large scale.

And

Merchants have no country. The mere spot they stand on does not constitute so strong an attachment as that from which they draw their gains.

 

Someone should start an off topic thread about religion.......yep from hot rods to politics to religion..........shit you guys need a reality check I'll be in the other room sorting all the banger parts I bought this weekend.

P.S.

I paid cash for them.

 

I am sorry to hear of your misfortune. It does suck. I was prepared to think a couple of weeks ago from news media it was a Big three North American thing. After a trip to Europe and watching the news there everynight I beleive it is a more world wide thing. All are strugggling to some point. People are not buyng cars because of the economic uncertainity. It is not because they build the wrong cars like the media would have us believe, there just isnt spare cash available. VW is trying to fend of an invasion from Porcshe who already owns some. Toyota is down over 30% which is more than the others. Others are struggling too. I hope it tiurns around as quickly as it came on. Best wishes for your future Don

 

As requested, adding religion to the discussion... "SUVs At The Altar"... enjoy!

http://www.reuters.com/article/GCA-autos/idUKTRE4B700220081208?virtualBrandChannel=10276

 

Scary.

 

I'm surprised this thread is still open. Moderators must have taken a couple of days off or something.

 

Yea. A couple of days ago one about why everybody liked their hotrods was closed in about two minutes.

 

Obviously you have never seen the other side of the UAW fence. I have and it is astonishing!! While I was on a job in Mexico I had the opportunity to dine with the head of North American Casting for Ford. The reason they are moving so many operations south and other places is a simple fact. A UAW employee costs approximately $150k a year (salary, benefits, and all the other stuff), and a Mexican worker will happily do the same job for $35-40k a year. Ladies and gentlemen, that is A LOT OF MONEY!!

It pains me to see stuff move out of the states, but I am in an industry that sees it all the time. I have been in many automotive plants (1st tier, 2nd tier, 3rd tier, etc.) and the attitude is the same by all the UAW employees. Fuck em, they can afford it! If I had a quarter for every time I heard that, I could retire early. I'm not defending managements position, but I certainly am not defending the UAW position either.

The hardest working unions that I have ever dealt with are steel workers, and boilermakers. Those dudes bust their asses to get the job done no matter what time it is. Lunch time, break time, 5 minutes before going home, what ever!

My first experience with a union shop was Chrysler in Trenton, MI (old home of the Hemi). It took 2 electricians (dedicated to this particular job) 5 days to pull 4 runs of 1ga wire 12' in OPEN OPEN OPEN cable tray. There were union meetings, lunch, breaks, shit breaks, tool runs, and clean up time came at 1:30p. Quitting time was 3:30p. That was a shit load of clean up for not doing a damn thing!! I tried to look at those guys with an unbiased view, but EVERY other successive auto plant was EXACTELY the same. And some WORSE than others. 14 hours (2 shifts) to replace a stainless 3/8" bolt at AAM plant 8 Holbrook Rd in Detroit. The bolt had fell out, and I only needed 2 washers, a nut, and a bolt. Same shit different place.

I could go on and on about them, but I will refrain. I can see it now...dude your an asshole...you don't know what your talking about...workers this, workers that...we arent lazy...management sucks...what the fuck ever. Been there done that, and seen it with my own two eyes.

 

Can't blame one person, ala Bill Clinton. This isn't the first time the US Automakers have been in trouble. Now, we're seeing the casualties of chasing bargains and chasing business out of the country. These problems have MANY influences. Other countries and certainly their auto companies looked at our big three models and set up their practices to prepare for this situation. That's why a Toyoya, Hyundai, or Honda can be produced here for less than a GM, Ford, or Chrysler.

While politicians have major influence... I tend to think it's the other way around. The money has the influence.

 

Yeah, if even the people that have kept this Thread going are complaining about it still being open it must be time to Close this...