nice spot... yes it is a Stevens hull. I cant recall exactly... it could have been a 16 footer... it was either that or 17... it wasnt a big boat.
Hey Spike, great to see you here on the HAMB, you really get around! I'm sure this is a thread you can contribute to...don't be holdin out on us now!
AppleKrate, "Wow" is appropriate verbage for your M/T Hemi Pontiac. Most people have never known that there was a Hemi conversion for the big pontiac motors. In fact, Mickey Thompson manufactured Hemi head kits for Pontiacs and the big FE series Fords. A friend of mine, Scotty McCaully, used to have an old Litchfield flatbottom that had a 427 Ford side-oiler with M/T Hemi heads. I have a Mickey Thompson catalog that shows all of the company's products, including those head kits, but I've only ever seen Scotty's up close. There was an early drag boat called "The Witch", I believe driven by Roberta Nichols, that had a Hemi Pontiac. I believe, if memory serves me right, that , as far as car drag racing is concerned, historically, every car to win Top Fuel has been Chrysler powered, except in '62, when a Pontiac with Mickey Thompson hemi heads won the season. I'm looking at the catalog, the Ford and Pontiac conversions use a 392 Hemi style valve cover and rocker arm set-ups to go with the M/T head castings, which were aluminum.The price? In 1964, the catalog shows the 389/421Pontiac Hemi head kit (cat. no.3579137), as selling for $900.00 . Again, "Wow"..................... Spike
"Jet Drive, V Drive, Ski boats, etc, etc ???,...what are the differences" A jet drive is basically a big water pump. All the motor does is spin this big pump. Water is sucked in, or at speed, forced into the intake from under the boat. there is an impeller and a nozzle out the back. Picture it like this.. You are in a little plastic play boat in your pool. Youhave a garden hose and if you put your thumb on the hose the pressure will move the boat. A jet boat is like that though a bit more complicated. A vee drive, or V-drive is named because that is what the drive looks like from a cross, or side, view. Usually, the motor is turned around (though some circle track boats do not) and a shaft is driven off of the crank shaft to a gear box that is usually between two front seats ( you can see it in my picture), then there is another, lower shaft that comes out at an angle, goes through the bottom of the boat and drives a propeller, or to be proper, a screw. Technically a propeller is something that moves air. a screw is something that moves through water. each type of drive has its own pros and cons and most Hot boaters are VERY loyal to the type they like and usually dislike the other kind. Jets are simple, much safer, can accelerate faster if setup properly, have more interior room ( because there is no drive taking up the space). Also, jets have the advange to running in very shallow water as there is nothing hanging underneath them. You can also run up the a beach with your jet and just shut off the motor right before 'beaching'. The down side is jets are much less efficient than a screw so they consume more fuel and are slower than a comparable v-drive with the same horsepower. Vee drives have some great history, they can be very fast with modest power, have great handling too if set up right. Most , but not all v drives in the 18' range are in flatbottom hulls witch gives them yet more speed but, at the cost of a very rough ride unless the water is smooth.. Many v drivers only go out early in the morning o before dusk when the water is calmer. I am one of the few who like both styles of drives and am blessed to have one of each. I hope I gave you an idea of the main differences in performance drives for this style of boat. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgia drags, show and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
Here are some v-drive pics to help clarify.... This pic shows the v-drive 'box', short for gear box. the upper shaft is not installed in his pic. It mounts to the 'box' then goes back to the motor. You can see why they are called 'v-drives' by their angle. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgia drags, show and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
Here is a pic of the underside of a v-drive boat. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgia drags, show and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
Now, take a look at this pic. Notice the angle and placement of the motor. it sits quite high and is angle down in the front. You can understand why because it has to mount to the v-drive box forward. Also note the motor is facing backwards. That way the drive can be driven off of the back of the crank flange. Most v-drives are set this way. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgia drags, show and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR>
Now, let's compare and look at a jet. Note how the motor faces forward, like in a car, the jet drive is behind it. The part outside of the boat is called the bowl. Not installed in this picture is the nozzle that bolts to the bowl. Jet boats have their drives stick out behind the hull where a v-drive has it inside and under. Usually, there is no rudder on a jet boat. The boat is steered by turning the nozzle and aiming the water spray in the opposite direction you want to go. If you are driving a jet boat and want to make a fast turn, you must keep yout foot in it because if you lift the throttle, you also loose your thrust and the boat goes straight even if you turn the wheel. It takes a bit to get used to. they do make rudders for jets but, they seem to be only on low performance models. Also note how the motor in the jet boat sits low in the hull and is tilted backward... the opposite of a v-drive boat. With this basic knowledge, you can tell a jet boat from a v-drive from a considerable distance whether on the trailer or in the water. Jets can also aim their nozzle upward which creates a huge 'rooster tail' sometimes several hundred feet long. This looks cool but, actually slows the boat down. for best speed in a jet, you aim the nozzle just above the water line. Boats are a lot of fun. Everyone should experience it. Steve Steve Barcak
Most V drive boats are set up with the motor backwards (compared to a car) with the exception of boats like mine. Mine is a ex oval racer. In that configuration the V drive has a bit less of a angle and it's driven off the front of the motor. (back of the motor at back of boat) Iv been told that the torque of the motor helps it turn left.
Spike writes-"<TABLE class=tborder id=post3361046 cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" align=center border=0><TBODY><TR vAlign=top><TD class=alt1 id=td_post_3361046 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e5e5e5 1px solid">AppleKrate, "Wow" is appropriate verbage for your M/T Hemi Pontiac. Most people have never known that there was a Hemi conversion for the big pontiac motors. In fact, Mickey Thompson manufactured Hemi head kits for Pontiacs and the big FE series Fords. A friend of mine, Scotty McCaully, used to have an old Litchfield flatbottom that had a 427 Ford side-oiler with M/T Hemi heads. I have a Mickey Thompson catalog that shows all of the company's products, including those head kits, but I've only ever seen Scotty's up close. There was an early drag boat called "The Witch", I believe driven by Roberta Nichols, that had a Hemi Pontiac. I believe, if memory serves me right, that , as far as car drag racing is concerned, historically, every car to win Top Fuel has been Chrysler powered, except in '62, when a Pontiac with Mickey Thompson hemi heads won the season. I'm looking at the catalog, the Ford and Pontiac conversions use a 392 Hemi style valve cover and rocker arm set-ups to go with the M/T head castings, which were aluminum.The price? In 1964, the catalog shows the 389/421Pontiac Hemi head kit (cat. no.3579137), as selling for $900.00 . Again, "Wow"..................... Spike " Thanks for the nice words. I'll add here, yes, the M/T Pontiac rail did win Top Eliminator at the '62 US Nationals. They beat Connie Kalitta in the semis and beat Don Garlits in the finals. However, it was not Top Fuel as this was during the NHRA nitro ban. Those cars ran on gasoline. You have the '64 catalog handbook. I have 3 of his catalogs, 2 different ones from '62 and this same '64. This HEMI engine I have is actually not a conversion, it is the only known complete existiting Pontiac HEMI. the block was cast by Pontiac for Mickey as a HEMI block. Has "M/T" cast right in it. The guy I bought it from bought it from Mickey Thompson in 1963. It has magnesium Pontiac HEMI intake and other related parts. In the mid 60s it was in a drag car, then late 60s next into t sand rail on fuel. then in early 70s went into this flatbottom. I am seeking any pictures and info on anything related to HEMI Pontiacs. If you have, or know of, anything to share, please contact me. I have 5 other M/T HEMI Pontiac head castings for a total of 7 at this time. Steve Barcak <DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgia drags, show and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az </DIR> <!-- / message --></TD></TR><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e5e5e5 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #e5e5e5 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #e5e5e5 1px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #e5e5e5 1px solid"> </TD><TD class=alt1 style="BORDER-RIGHT: #e5e5e5 1px solid; BORDER-TOP: #e5e5e5 0px solid; BORDER-LEFT: #e5e5e5 0px solid; BORDER-BOTTOM: #e5e5e5 1px solid" align=right><!-- controls --></TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
Applekrate, I own four Stevens boats. One is a blown gas hydro (392 Hemi), two are flatbottom ski boats, and the fourth, is possibly the most historic and well known record holder still existing, an unblown fuel flatbottom called the "Mortician". The Mortician has two Hilborn injected 327 Chevys, inline, linked at the cranks, on fuel. It dominated the class of UFF and set 5 world records between '65 and '67, until Buzz Coats, the driver, passed away driving another boat. It's restoration deserves to be as correct as can be, and I'm only missing ONE original piece. I thought I'd run this past you, since you have some dealings with M/T products. What I'm looking for is an early "Thompson" timing cover for a small block Chevy. The fins are unique, as they go up-and-down instead of horizontal, and the hole in the cover for the crank snout is larger, to receive a bearing that serves as a crank snout support. The rear-most engine has a Moon cover, and is exactly how it was when built, but, the forward-most engine had a Thompson timing cover. I know there's lots of Chevy fans out there, will someone help the cause. Someone has one of these hanging on their garage wall, I just know it. Steve, if you, or anyone out there can help find the missing part, please contact me. Spike
Lead, This is for the guys who built her....Bill Clark, Tom Morgan, and Buzz Coats. I'm just taking care of her for them.
The thing about wood decks is, there's nothing like them. In terms of sheer beauty, they're the upper echelon of a truly "custom " boat. Of course, before boat hulls started to be made of fibreglass, they were all wood, and many left the decks 'glassed over (not painted) clear to show off the grains of the fine woods used. As the sixties rolled in, boats became truly "customs".A fibreglass hull with Metalflake was king, but, if you wanted to be a step above the pack, you ordered a wood deck. That Howard on the cover of Hot Rod,( post #41) is a perfect example. Dig the H/M 427 side oiler too. AND, they're coming back. The trend today has shifted from the doldrums of every body powered alike, to people installing classic hot rod engines, vintage marine equiptment is preferred, seating for four has returned, and fifteen colors of candy in a "ZZ Top" graphic is starting to take a back seat to wood decks and metalflake. The truth is, 99% of all flatbottoms , and to a lesser degree ,hydros, were ski boats, not race boats.(You guys remember how to water ski, don't you?) In recent times their lineage has been all but erased by trends of the 80's and 90's, but it's turning around. Join the fun!
Just a note of interest, That cover of Hot Rod Magazine( I believe was September of '67, I have a copy hanging on the garage wall), included many different photos of boats, engines and parts throughout the issue, including a photo of the engine in "Too Much'. You can read the name in the photo.
I had to run over to Giroux Boats today, to pick up an old Moon aluminum air scoop pete had welded for me. Pete's shop is a fun place. The reception area has glass cases full of marine hardware waiting for someone's next project. There's a newly laced pair of wire dragster front wheels over there, a real nice "t-tank" fuel tank for a drag boat over here, and just a potpouri of gearhead equiptment happening. But, it's what was going on out in the shop, that caught my eye. They were stripping out a Campbell flatbottom of it's hardware to prepare the wood hull for restoration. In the middle of the shop was a newly restored Rayson-Craft hull, complete with a fresh wood deck (it was gorgeous), and it's 392 Chrysler was out getting re-built to new condition. To the side, we find a completely restored Poty flatbottom, sporting a very hot 327 with dry stacks, and a set of 48IDA Webers. Looking further in the shop, there's a hot Buick Nailhead wearing a nice set of vintage Hilborn Injectors with a Joe Hunt mag sitting on a base that also holds the Hilborn fuel pump and drive . Pete told me about a Stevens flatbottom that was coming in with a 394 Olds and six-Stromberg carb set-up. And Pete tells me he's busy,...real busy. Haven't I been saying it? It's not coming, it's here and it's on. Just like the street rods have gone back to traditional built cars, hot inboards, like they used to be, are back. It's a win/win for the hot boat faithfull. All of the classic manufacturers of hulls are being sought after, not just the two or three that ended up being drag race only hulls. All of the popular hot rod engines are having new life breathed into them. The big block chevy isn't the first choice anymore( unless it's a 427). People who desire a custom hot inboard are finding out what we've all known for so long...................... Spike
Isn't that the truth, Spike. Hey, next time you head over to Giroux's, bring your camera you big tease!! haha
Leadsled, I should have brought a camera , you're so right. I'll be going back again for some more stuff. I have an original set of Bill Morse long zoomies from the sixties, that have "ripples" crimped into the pipes near the ends, where the pipes gently "trumpet" at the very end. Bill Morse used to go around to all the engine builders (before Bassett even started), asking the guys(Keith Black, Dave Zeuschel, etc.) what they needed exhaust-pipe wise for their engines. Bill would go home, weld up whatever they needed, and bring them their pipes. If you've ever seen zoomies from the sixties with "ripple pipes", there's a good chance they're Bill's. Anyway, I have a set I found ten years ago, and Pete Giroux asked if he could borrow them to figure out how to duplicate some for his customers, so I told him he could have them as long as he needs as long as they don't get damaged. So, I'll be going over there soon I'm sure. I thought of you when I saw that injected Nailhead. Spike
Camm- gosh, that is a pretty boat. Spike- I just saw the pics here of your hydro. I saw that boat earlier this year in April at the Seal beach car show! I was there! Took a bunch of pics of your boat too! I looked at it for some time, esp the fuel system, etc. Here is one of my pics. the other is the gas prices at that time. This was before I put the overdrive in my '72 455HO GTO so the trip was pricey. Very nice. I wish we would have known each other ( from the net ) prior to. It would have been nice to meet you in person. Maybe some other time. Always interested in any info of Pontiac M/T HEMI use. I have heard of a few who used them in boats. 1 of my pairs I bought from a buy in 2000 who said they were on a boat. I bought that pair somewhere up in Montana, Idaho general area. Steve Barcak www.pontiacheaven.org
Absolutely gorgeous boat, Camm...beautiful!! Here's a link to John Millers shop build of a real nice all wood flatbottom, I got the link off V-driveboat.com. http://www.johnmillerboats.com/wood_boat_page.html
Camm! That Howard is a beaut! The patterns in the deck (birch?), really pop. The boat is something to be proud of....Right On! Applekrate (Steve), Thanks for the kind words yourself. We're all gearheads here, and I admire your stuff, and I'm surely flattered that you like Bill Dirksings old Blown Gasser "Too Much". In the photo you posted of the hydro at Seal Beach, you can see Bob Garner's boat's deck in the foreground. Bob was a record holder in BGF with "Lil Ski-Mer" in the sixties, and then tried his hand at Blown Gas Hydro in the seventies, and was the high points champion, I believe in 1970, with that very hydro in the picture. Check out his helmet, sitting on the deck of his Sanger. It's still got it's original "psychedelic" paint that his painter did back in the sixties! At that Seal Beach show, four boats came to display. I brought Bill Dirksing's Stevens BGH, Bob Garner brought his "Miss Super Glide" Sanger BGH, Fred Iaia brought his Sanger "Sicilian Bandit" BGH, and Harlan Orrin brough one of his fine in-the-works Mandellas. Bob, Fred, Harlan, and Bill , are all legitimate N.D.B.A. 100 MPH Club members from the sixties. All raced at Ski-Land. The people walking around probably had NO idea of the history that was right there! I'm flattered to know all of them, and all of you guys..... Spike
Here's my old wood deck Buck Smith flat. Smith was one of the originators/organizers of drag boat racing which was started at Lake Ming in Bakersfield. He was also one of the first in the 100 mph club back then. He also invented the chopper gun for mass produced fiberglass work. Also my '65 Howard. Both were FE powered.
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