HOW TO JUDGE A WELD, One thousand words can tell you more than one picture.

Thanks, Don.
For structures, 1/4 plate and thicker, I prefer stinger-stick too. My little fluxcore wirefeed is great for lightwork and the fluxcore works better with dirty/rusty than mig. Porosity on tin gives the paint something to grip, Lazy but works. Knowing torch is basic training, without it one is missing some insight.

 

Each has it's place. On heavy plate, a stick welder will leave a TIG or torch in the dust. On stainless, aluminum, TIG is superior. I like torch on thinwall tube, like headers.

 

It's because there are'nt any versatile welders like that. All good welders know there are advantages to all methods, some are superior to others, depending on circumstance.

 

GREAT thread, thanks.
Since so many welders are on here, can I "tap the keg of knowledge?".

My buddy is doing a project requiring welding 2" square tubing, lots of 45 degree and 90 degree joints, done with his home 110/220V arc machine. He's self-taught, but doing well at everything so far EXCEPT inside corner welds. During our destructive tests the tubing deforms instead of the welds seperating on all the non-inside welds so far. It's just these danged inside corners...

He's tried running the different arc patterns, voltages and currents and nothing so far is reliably fusing those inside corners. Going in, I thought those would be the easiest, not the hardest. We're using the cheap H.F. 1/16" rods. Maybe we ought to try a different rod?
Any and all suggestions gratefully received.
Al

 

Young's shop is still open but like most of us "not very busy" when I drive by.
I think you ment West of Oracle on Prince Rd speedway is a few miles to the South and runs E and W like prince.
Burl did some welding on my 56 chevy back in 64 as I am still on the North side and needed a rack (ramp) and Mermo did not do autos only parts!!

 

I agree, as I said in my previous post, when I owned the sign shop we used TIG on the aluminum extrusion and the Stick on the steel trailers. Crazy thing is that it was the same welder that did both TIG and stick. A water cooled Lincoln and this was in the late sixties.
We didn't use MIG on the aluminum because of spatter.
I love this thread, I think I will go out into the neighborhood and see if someone needs something welded. Maybe that good looking divorcee on the corner.

 

What can I say? They all like welders...........

 

Yep, it's been years, NORTH ORACLE. Just north of Prince Rd. a quarter mile or so, on the right was a dirty floor, THE WAGON. No chance it's still there?

I called Burl on the 'phone last week. He sounds bright and chipper. He would enjoy a visit, I'm sure. He lives on the premesis. He said the chainlink gate will be unlocked if he's open for business/talk, said to bring money!

 

I am currently working on a custom grille, and there are places that need to be filled and then smoothed down for chrome plating purposes...much like chopping a bumper I guess. These pieces will not experience any real stress.

So my question is, how do I go about finding a GOOD welder here in Houston? And short of having the welds x-rayed, how do I know if it is a good weld? Great article, by the way.

 

Good read indeed.. thanks for sharing your knowledge ...

 

Will silver solder work instead of brass?

 

I especially agree with your remarks that only the welder is qualified to decide to grind it off. Every good welder has reworked something of his own.

Every good weld I have put down, I walked away satisfied. Every less than good weld, I have thought twice about.

Thanks 29Nash.

 

Excellent question. Silver and brass have comparable strength. Brass coorodes more rapidly. Silver tarnishes, but erosion is very slow, takes years to go away. Take a dime, bury it with a penny in wet dirt, (copper and brass corrode at approximately the same rate), in 20 years the dime will still be a dime, the penny will have been the anode due to its atomic rank and will be a green slug.

 

I'm sure there's a better answer; but I look at it this way. If the tubing is like for a roll cage, augment the loss of strength of the inside corner void with an external gussett.

Of course a steam fitter will not go for that solution!
.

 

Thanks. I do have large oxy/acet bottles, and I am very familiar with brazing. For sure, brass is much easier to work with in this instance than steel.

 

I must say that a properly executed weld will be a more over attractive weld than one that is just lots of hot metal poured in.Ive been a welder for 7 years and am college educated and aws certified

 

what is the thickness of the material you are trying to weld are you welding vert.up or down? what is your settings on the machine?Can you switch to 220V?that may help

 

I always dress grind welds to knock off the high points still looks like a weld but not as ugly. never did see the point of trying to make smooth. pretty weld have a lot to do with hand eye cordination penatration and testing are the true tests.

 

29 Nash, Great thread. Thanks for starting it. I learned a lot. I am a self taught welder. Trial and error, with lots of error. I've been stick welding off and on for 30+ years. I recently got a square wave TIG machine. I had no confidence in my TIG welding. The welds aren't as pretty as one's I've seen here. The other day I welded the edge of a 3/16" washer to the edge of a piece of scrap 3/16" bar. The weld looked ok. I put it in a vice and beat it till it bent 90 degrees, beat it straight, beat it 90 degrees again. The weld did not break. That weld is looking better all the time. This thread gave me some confidence. Thanks! YOU are correct, anyone can weld!
Advice to someone that has never welded,... Ask a friend to let you try welding on some scrap. I think stick welding is the easiest. DC stick will make a first timer think they are an expert. AC stick may convince a beginner they will never be able to weld. Try different rods. 6011 rod is very easy to use, messy, but easy. 7014 rod is a good rod to try. The two rods weld way different. Look at welding on the internet. Miller has some good advice. I hope what I've written is of of some use. Lucky667

 

Hey Lucky. I couldn't ask for a better weld, that can be bent like that twice and not fail. Your contribution has some valuable factual information that somebody will try, I'm sure.
I'll bet you have got somebody that don't have any 6011 or 7014 curious as we speak. Somebody might just go out and get that last minute gift for a welder buddy/spouse/lover a box of it for Christmas!

 

Lucky 667, you triggered my memory about the welding sticks. I remember we used one rod for strength and then went to that 7014 (I think thats the number) to get the pretty weld. I remember we would weld and the slag would literally roll up as we welded. Didn't have to knock it off, it just popped off. Again this was 45 years ago, and I am not sure about the numbers. I really liked that old Lincoln water cooled welder.

 

I will say that if I were building a frame I would use a MIG as much as I could .oN EXHAUST I would like to TIG it allI ve been wanting to to Hardline a traditional rod with all brass tubing,all TIG welded.I think hat would look great

 

Good points. In my experience as a certified pressure vessel welder most of those welders didn't make pretty welds. Perfect welds are actually below what you see.
A beautiful weld, skin deep may have inclusions, trapped slag and be too thin.
Yes I thought I was going to get to argue with you in fun. But no you are actually 100% right.

 

29 Nash, Thanks for the kind words. I' don't want to side track or take over this post, but I've thought about this since I first posted.
REMEMBER,... This advice is coming from someone that taught himself how to weld. I have NOT been to welding school, no classes, and some days no brains. Go buy YOURSELF a DC cracker box welder. Whatever you do DON'T dare buy an A/C. I know the A/C is 1/2 price of a D/C. Don't do it! It's way too hard to teach yourself to weld with one of them. WHY DO YOU THINK I'M SAYING THIS? Allready done that. Some days you will weld better than others. The 6011 rod is messy, but it's good and very easy to use. I know I shouldn't have, but I have welded lots of dirty, rusty, ill fitting farm junk back together with that rod and it didn't break. 6011 is very forgiving. The 7014 is very good and easy to use too. Once I'm welding, I can push the 7014 into the puddle and it keeps melting, works good. Now the 7018! Finally, on a good day I can weld verticle with that rod. I weld flat with it very well. Turn the amps up and push the rod into the puddle, no zig-zag, no overlaping U 's. Just a straight line. Sometimes after the weld cools, the slag will lift off by itself. Now the overlapping U's are good on the 6011. I have used over 500 lbs of 1/8" 6011 rod making repairs, building steel buildings. I know 7018 is better and stronger, I couldn't weld with it at the time. I still can't weld with 6013. No way! There is so much clay/slag/ insulation. When I chip the clay off a 6013 weld, there isn't much weld. Maybe YOU can weld with it, I can't, I gave up on it. For CHRISTMAS, buy your own present, get a D/C welder and a box of 1/8" 6011 rods. Don't practice, just build yourself a work bench. Then build a welding table. Then a BBQ pit. When you get comfortable, weld on the Hot Rod. If any of this advice is good or bad, let me know. Best Wishes, Lucky667

 

Very sound advice all around thanks guys.

 

I flashed the heck out of my eyes with my TIG tonight. I was practicing my welding on tube after work tonight. It is always good to put your lid down before you push the pedal by accident. My eyes are going to feel good in the am.
wil
www.sakowskimotors.com

 

wil; I hope they don't feel too sandy.

Lucky667; Thanks for contributing good information. Good solid advice, and your description of high-amp straight line reminds me of experiences 50 years ago, is what Mr Burl Young called "reaching for the bottom"!

When I first "helped" him because he "let" me cut the old rotten bottoms out of fertilezer trucks with a torch. That 'shit truck' floor was so bad sometimes it was not even cutting, more like just melting it away. Used the tip cleaner a lot! After that I would chip the edge, prepare the patch, hold it in place, and he would straight-line the new plate to the edge of the heavier edge of the channel iron structure, with stitches about an inch long. Each stitch only took about 2 seconds as he "reached for the bottom" of that channel iron frame barely catching the edge of the new floor plate.
You guessed it, the puddle grabbed that plate and sucked it over, with the prettiest bead, slag rolling up as it went. I recall laying on the ground holding the patch in place as he got it started, then I would rest for a minute as he worked, watching the red line travel along the underside edge as he worked from above.
We sweated like jockies on weight loss before weigh-in with that hot Arizona sun beating down on us. At quitting time (no refrigerator in that open air shop) a few cans of Lucky Lager went into what Ice remained in the water jug. That beer really went down easy!

 

Not much experience here, but I did take a gas welding course for airframe 4130 Chrome-Molly tubing.

After a couple of days many of us were frustrated about how bad our welds looked. You had to take what you get, as there was no grinding of welds allowed.

After we got pretty good, but still not impressed with our work, the instructor took us out to a hanger where we looked over a production aircraft made with 4130 tubing. Our frustration went away when we saw that many of our welds looked just as good.

 

A lot of great hands -on experience type of advice has been given about the integrity of welded material, but one of the biggest components of a structurally solid weld is the joint geometry. I understand we're mostly talking about sheet metal and tubing, but even relatively thin walled tubing such as chromemoly can fail if the joint is not properly prepared; unless you're attempting a full penetration weld which quite another topic.
Merry Christmas everyone,
PK