Neat Early Rear Engine Dragster

Thought people might find this interesting. If anyone has details, please share. Thanks.

 

I think it belongs to Tom Wilford.

 

Is Tom still in Tacoma, Wash??............OLDBEET

 

There were lots of early experiments with rear engine dragsters, including at least one with a crossways engine, but all died out without much influence or success as front engine cars developed into the classic slingshot of the sixties. Then Garlits blew his foot off and he and the world shifted to rear engine overnight...what were the dynamics here, the problems/successes of old short wheel base cars with fron and rear engines?? What was going on with traction and stability?

 

Last I talked to him he was but I guess that was quit a few months ago now.

 

Due to short wheelbase, I'm sure it's a handful...but I'd feel more confident in that than the monster below. Talk about sideways, yeesh!

 

Bones -

This car was restored a couple years ago and shows up at the CHRRs. I'm vague on the details, but the unique thing about it is that the frame is a Scotty Fenn design. Scotty had the old Chassis Research Company - the first outfit to produce ready-made dragster frames, way back in the '50s.

Fenn was quite the character, and had an ongoing battle with Wally P. and the NHRA over several decades. Stories about him are legend amongst the dragster guys. For instance, he was adament that the perfect wheelbase for a dragster was the circumference of the rear tire - hence the under-90 inch cars that were around for so long in the early days. I guess everyone just assumed he knew it all, since he was just about the only "pro" chassis builder in the very early days.

If I remember right, only a few were made. This particular one apparently had some success (in the '60s, I believe) - back in the midwest. I'll scoot over to WDIFL and see if I can find any more info there.

 

Fascinating and pretty car. I'd love to know a little more. Thanks!

 

Coleman bros. speed shop had a big race car engine building reputation around here for lots of years. It was located just south of Baltimore on rte.1. If I'm not mistaken Ladd rented a building from them and was the man for head work in the Balt./wash area in that time period.

 

The Speed Sport Roadster, Old Noisey, was rear-engined as well. If fact it held national records in it heyday. Yes, it was and is noisey. I speak from experience of hearing and seeing it run at the old Tucson Dragway in the 60's. There were other rear-engined drag cars but none were very successful. Equipment failures and wanting to protect the driver's legs and feet pushed the rapid development of rear-engined dragsters. When Garlits lost most of his foot to a clutch explosion, he quit front-engined cars, built a rear-engined car and made it successful almost immediately. Then most everybody copied him. That's what I remember anyway. But who trusts an old guy's over-40 memory?

 

Marshall had a Speed Sport car at his shop for while.And I think that cars does belong to Tom Wilford as well as the Ks Pittman/Mazmanian Austin wich I saw for sale online the other day.That guy has amazing stuff.

 

This car was built by my uncles Bill & Dave Coleman who owned Coleman Bros. Speed Shop in Elkridge Maryland..... This car has some real racing history.... One of the very first Rear Engine Cars that Worked! ....... Was once the worlds fastest Chevy powered dragster!...... I've been told by many of the local Old racers that are still around, that Garlits, Kaleta and other up & coming racers in the early 60's tripped and fell over each other in the pits while trying to run though the pits to see this car run at York, Capital etc...... Being from the east the car didn't get its true respect & props as the TRUE "First Rear Engine Dragster" .... That title went to one of the guys who just about broke his neck trying to see this car run!..... One Rag called this car/team " The Dark Horse From The East"

 

built by Coleman Brothers Speed Shop Elk Ridge Maryland late 59 - 61?...... The True "First Rear Engine Dragster" Once the worlds fastest Chevy powered Dragster!.... Bill Coleman builds motors to this day!........ The Speed shop was on the same lots as LADDS PORTING and right down the street was another first " Ai Fiberglass "

 

When Big Daddy built the first rear engine he had problems with it.
Connie swingle said what is the matter Don ,he said i turn the wheel and it starts heading for the wall,connie said no problem Gar i will slow down the steering,and the long wheel base rear engine rail problem was solved. Connie was one heck of a mechanic that is why Big Daddy held on to him so long.

 

Beatiful in it's simplicity.

 

Here's another early day (1960), short wheelbase r.e.d. out of Cali.

 

Very similar to one I remember seeing at the Woodburn (OR) Dragstrip back in the '60s. It was bright green metallic. Called "Miss Demeanor". I seem to recall it being a sidewinder, though.
Thanks for the memories.

 

here's another shot of the car, and, uh.... there were other rear engine dragsters before that car, successful or not.

I seem to remember some input from Pat Foster on Garlits' rear engined car too. Funny how stories change by point of view

 

The Coleman Brothers Speed Shop Car from 1960-61.... Thats DAVID COLEMAN..Bill Colemans Younger Brother & Partner in the speed shop packing the chute!..... AND.... The car YEARS later now owned by Tom Willford...... THE FIRST... Rear Engine Dragster "THAT WORKED"


"http://41willyscoupe.home.comcast.net/Coleman 1961 red a.jpg"
"http://41willyscoupe.home.comcast.net/COLEMANcar1961.jpg"[/IMG]

 

Hey Beet! I usually see Tom at the California Hot Rod Reunion as he still does the swap meet there and lately with the help of his son. Anyhow, last I knew he was down in the Rochester area which is between Centralia and Elma.
Mike

 

The Speed Sport Special ‘roadster’ out of Arizona was the first good running rear-engine drag car I ever saw. It was really fast and it ran with no problems – no muss, no fuss, straight down the strip. Incredible and beautiful car. I saw it get top eliminator once against the dragsters. That was pretty early – maybe ’59 or ’60? Then there was the Sidwinder, with transverse rear engine – can’t remember where he was from – chain drive thing. The idea was for the torque of the transverse engine to keep the front wheels down. As for short wheelbase cars, Gabby Bleeker’s Olds powered Bantam was fast, noisy, scary, and great fun to watch. One hell of a driver, Gabby was from Chicago and was a good guy. A lot of good guys back then, all trying different things, and all helping each other too. Anyone have photos of these three cars?

 

the chain drive rear engine was lowel listers out of aston pa. it was called the"cross fire" had a sideways mounted blown hemi. Bob rosetty found this car complete in lowel listers barn (that collapsed onto it) along with spare parts/engines & pics ect. he was tipped off by his friend and driver joe jocono on the location and contact info. bob bought it off of lowell and restored it and routinly shows it along with his funny cars at differnet meets.

 

One of those Chassis Research rear engine cars lives about a half hour from me. Don Waltner, who ran a speed shop out of his appliance store, was a Chassis research dealer and ran one back in the day. He's given it to his grandson but I haven't connected with him yet to take a peak.

I bought a bunch of old Drag News, National dragster, etc... from Don and while looking them over I found one that was addressed to Scotty Fenn.

 

Yes the car is around, Tom Wolford was the last owner, (still think that is correct)

I had the pleasure of helping with the restoration of the car. Marty Strode of North Plains, Oregon did the restoration.

 

Short wheelbase? I think one needs to sit down and think through a lot of the reasons often given why short wheelbasecars dont work, How we got to RED from FED and why Big Daddys car wanted to turn at the end of a run.
I run a 96 incher FED. It goes so straight i could put my finger in my ear and drive it i think . I know it isnt high Hp but it is short. Why does a rail need to be 300 inches and a funny car around 120? Same power same speeds. Why did engines go to the rear because it is often said that if not no one would be able to drive an FED a current power levels? Huh????? Dont tell John Force that. Garlits got hurt because his torqueflight trans exploded due to an overspeeding Low reverse drum. Any torqueflight with a full maunual reverse patteren valve body is in danger of doing this if a burnout is started in low gear and then the thriottle lifted. Us mopar guys know "Dont do your burnout in low"! The reason in simple terms is the trans has no braking action on let up with a reverse pattern manual valve body so LR drum speed can hit 10000rpm and beyond after letting up in frst gear. That is what happened to large father then BUT for 30 years at least Fuel dragsters do not use trannies and funny car guys are sitting right in there with all the stuff with no trouble. We forget that. Altereds are relatively short as well. 90 is pretty short for sure but 110 to 125 is not unreasonable. When is the last time you saw a 300 inch long formula one or indy car?
If the large father had a Rack and pinion steering on the first RED of fame instead of a long flexible rod running from a conventional steering box pitman arm to a steering arm at the front axle ,all the while swinging through a different arc BTW then the rest of the front suspension, it would have been a mott point. I like these old cars like the thread starting pic here and think they get a bad rap. I believe one should step back a think it all through. I do not believe in mysterious things. There is a reason for everything mechanical. Nice photos btw. Isnt someone on here running a RED slant six HAGR?
Don

 

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You guys did one heck of a nice job restoring this neat old record holder...... Props to all involved!

 

Tom's on here .............Lurking around, post some of your pic's Tom ..