And what makes you think that the vendor would not have responded in the same way without the H.A.M.B. being involved? Looks to me as if: A) He's offered to replace the parts with the newest design, on his dime. B) He's suggested a couple of areas in which to look for possible causes. C) He was professional & concise in his answer, without passing the buck. Not every problem that happens in the world is a damn conspiracy where SOMEONE's out to screw the little guy...and only stops when the media catches him... And, my guess is, if it does turn out to be an installation issue, the original poster is also a stand-up guy and will document that here as well, so others will be aware of the situation.
Give Fatman a break. He doesn't have a crystal ball. He's only responding to an issue that was brought up concerning one of his products. If he didn't respond, you would be telling us what a jerk he was. Brent set me up (20 years ago) with some shortened tubular control arms for my 37 Ford and no problems. Still have the car, still drive the double hockey sticks out of it. As far as I'm concerned, the guy puts out a good product, and further, I believe he's fair. His business is well established and has been around for many years. That doesn't happen by jerking customers around. p.s. Fatman isn't my brother-in-law, brother, uncle, cousin, blah blah blah.
A. i Say good sevices B. i say good service C. again good service D. conspiracy thats your word... im not talking bad about this company i think it realy is good service and it could happen too any company .... dont be so paranoid..
I think posting pics of remaining suspension components would help get better idea of what could have happened. It is easy to be riding along on dead shocks or weak springs as in a Rod most of us drive them easier than we would the family wagon. You get used to the feel and might not notice it. Post pics of the bushings and the shock set up. Also do you have a rubber stop? Fatman please post findings positive or negative so we can know how to avoid the problem.
i bought some ball joint spacers from brent once for a chevy pickup but somthing in the design brent decided he did not like so he called me and we traded for something else because he did not want me running them. he is a stand up guy that will take care of it no matter if its on here or not. he just worked his hobby into a buisiness and has done great with it. and i knew him when it was just a hobby and we are not related.
Sounds like a happy ending to me. It's great to see a company represented this way from the top down.
He answered this first thing back on Monday at 7:51 AM sounds like he is taking care of business first thing after vacation !!
Talked to Brent at Fatmans this morning. He was concerned with getting my problem solved first without any fingerpointing or excuses. He offered to upgrade me to the new design arms which he will ship next week. I will then return my old parts for analysis of the failure. I could not have asked for a more up front, courteous, timely and generous response. I actually purchases these parts in 2000 (time flies) according to Brents records. Name another vendor who would take a guys word that an eight year old part had only been in use two years. My hat's off to Brent and Fatmans. Companies like this deserve to prosper as I'm sure he has and will continue to do so. Thanks Brent
I'm not surprised by Brent's response. We all need to remember that any of these aftermarket suspension swaps involve a LOT of variables. None of the manufacturers can control the quality of final installation, the actual weight distribution, or the on-going maintenance, etc. I followed all the threads on this for my own education. Some of the strengthing ideas were really good. The google search suggested here showed only two real gripes about Heidt's and FM in the first 12 pages (on one from five years ago, the rusted bolt failure was not even at the stress point on the a-arm). I'm not making excuses for any manufacturer. But when we start cutting up OEM engineered systems, even older designs, and replacing them ourselves with a box of tubes and parts, it becomes OUR job to inspect and maintain the new components. I'm betting that too light coil-bind will be the culprit on this one. No disrepect to rstanberry - in fact you handled this better than any of us. Hope you get going soon and thank God it was not a shorts soiler! BTW: My parents 2002 Buick has had 7 strut failures (blowing through into the hood!) in the past 3 years! Yet GM claims to "know nothing" of any other failures, even though they keep repairing the car long after the warranty is done.
This needs to be on top enough that everyone who may have read it in passing can see how well it was handeled.
We'll want to get a good look at the coilovers. If the coils show signs of coil binding, or the bushings are beat up, it may be seen as a sign that the coilovers were bottoming out. That causes the suspension to stop moving and all the impact force put directly on the mounting. We'll work together to see what that all looks like. You may need a stronger spring. I still don't like this design. He(Brent) is worried that the spring may bind up or the shock will bottom. He suggest really stiff springs to prevent this in any bump condition. The only suspension stop is coil bind or shock bottoming out. How stiff must it be?? If he has sold that many he must know. No car company woud sell a car with no suspension stops. It is laughable that people put these in and have to worry about the next chuck hole or 2x4 they may run over.
Yeah, that's one thing that a lot of aftermarket coilover type front suspensions are missing -- bump stops. Every stock original suspension has some kinds of rubber bumpstops front and rear. They might be little rubber pads on the lower a-arms or that hit the lower a-arms. Without bumpstops, if the shocks bottom out or you get coil bind, you get metal to metal slamming which jars the hell out of everything and parts start to break. Most stock suspsensions have a whole lot more spring travel than people design into coil-over (shock and coil as a unit) suspensions. If you go from a cushy stock suspension to a coil-over that has a lot less spring travel, it seems that you better put in stiffer than stock springs or you're going to risk bottoming out. So it kind of seems like a bad idea to me if you're shooting for a nice cushy ride and you choose coilover shocks. Coil over shocks are meant for race cars where you want minimal spring travel and a stiff ride. I think stock style coil springs with separate shocks with a long travel are better if you're looking for a smooth ride. [I still don't like this design. He(Brent) is worried that the spring may bind up or the shock will bottom. He suggest really stiff springs to prevent this in any bump condition. The only suspension stop is coil bind or shock bottoming out. How stiff must it be?? If he has sold that many he must know. No car company woud sell a car with no suspension stops. It is laughable that people put these in and have to worry about the next chuck hole or 2x4 they may run over.[/quote]
Geez, what a good thought about the need for stops on anything we build. I can honestly admit that I never thought about that as a cause for damage on suspensions that do not have stops.... and if you look at factory stops, they are positioned outwards near the balljoint so it does not stress the A-arm when the car slams the stop.
[/quote] My Heidt's coilovers came with rubber stops in them...problem is it looks like it'll severly limit the travel, but we'll see this year when i get it on the road.
Poor design, average fabrication. I can't say I have seen much that Fat Man has that I would actually run on a car that I own. I can't imagine what their liability insurance must cost. Rex
If I may make a suggestion to check actual shock movement, put a tie wrap on the shock tube at ride height and go driver. Then check the position of the wrap on the tube. This will give very actuate indication of travel. If the tie is at the bottom of tube, not good.
I work for an OEM of Reflow ovens for the Electronics industry, (your cell phone circuits were soldered on our machines) I am the Technical Specialist for North and South America (plus the Goto guy for all of our branch offices around the World) I deal with technical issues on our equipment everyday, all day providing solutions with parts resale and warranty claims. From a Customer Service point of View Fat Man did the right thing above and beyond the norm for all industry. He not only replaced the parts with newest design, he gave him a place to look for preventing this form happening again. I've read the discussions for this matter, and I see that there are some very different opinions, that's OK that's the way it should be, So my opinon is this whether there was a flaw in MFG, or usage, or subpar installation, it doesn't matter. Most other people would say "well maybe it was the operators fault since there were many years of flawless operation" or "we will only cover it if it was installed by us" But Fat Man decided that, his reputaion is more important than the cost of losing face and customers. I commend him for backing up his product and taking care of business the way it should be done. That is the way I do it, no questions asked, remember the customer is ALWAYS right even if they are wrong. I'm not saying that anyone is to blame shit happens, it just happens to me more often.
Responded promptly, first thing Monday morning after a long holiday weekend Offered to replace an outdated design with new design Didn't play the blame game, just wanted to satisfy the customer Fatman will get more of my business as a result of their actions here. Sometimes you don't need some Six Sigma Bullshit to run a good business- you just have to run a good business. 'nuff said.
Ok still nothing learned here?? What kind of shocks were used and what did they look like? Did the arm fail due to another variable or was it just a bad design or assembly issue? Koni coil overs come with a huge rubber rebound bumper but are pricey. Would like to know VS who did what as FM has already attempted to remedy.
As already noted, Brent is a very stand up guy. All the guys at the shop are. They have answered all of my questions any time I have asked. I have installed 2 of his front ends, and they go in just like the instructions.....Read the damn things. He knows his products, and will freely give out tips, tricks and advice. He is also at most of the big shows they attend, is very approachable and low key. I have nothing but good things to say about him and his crew and highly reccommend his products to anyone I meet. Russ
I have had a fatmans setup in a 48 pickup for over 15 years and it is a great front end ...Good company, Good product, Good service...
It certainly appears that Fat Man did the right thing for Ron, reacted quickly, is providing updated assemblies and is going to analysis the failed part. I think they realize how lucky they were, imagine if Ron was going 75 and this failure happen! Both Ron and Fat Man dodged a bullet here. Good to see this kind of response from a hot rod supplier and I think it shows the influence of the HAMB. If Ron had not posted his picture and comments there would not be several thousand rodders that now know of a possible problem with the Fat Man parts. I think this knowledge by Fat Man probably added some extra push to do right by Ron. Rex
I have 2 cars in my shop now that aren't hamb friendly but both are valued at over $100000 each when finished ( we already have an offer of $140000 on one) and both have a fatman front suspension in them I have been using his stuff for years if I have a problem he takes care of it or one of his people help me out. I know chip foose used a fatman front in John Force school bus also. Not worried about his products at all RED
This good o boy shit is getting long and boring...whats the poop on the failure. There is more important tech info to be learned here like proper travel...bla...bla...blaa.
Just an update.I recieved replacement parts today from Fatmans as promised so the fun can begin. I am tied up this week in some continuing edu classes so wont be able to make any progress till next week but I'll keep yall informed. I'm anxious to get the old parts back to Brent for analysis so we can understand what happened.
Any updates from Fatman about the failure? We are really curious what the end result is. We have the same front end on our 34 Dodge coupe. Have had nothing but troubles since we bought and put it on. Instructions were less than piss poor. The tech help was even worse when you called them. Would always get different answers to the same question, including Brent..... Even to this day, our problems have been going on for almost seven years. I have come to realize that Brent is quick to cover his own butt by blowing a lot of smoke. The coil overs on our front end are waayyy too stiff. That's apparently to cover his poor design with no bump stops. Plus they advertised the front stub would automatically lower the car 3-5 inches. BS! Had to purchase the 2" drop spindles to get anything close to what we wanted. In the end, I can honestly say this front end was never designed to be legitamitely used for every day use. Unless in North Carolina the roads are like some sort of heaven? The roads in South Dakota are rough, especially after a harsh winter. I also have to wonder why Fatman does not weld on the peices added to the crossmember for the lower a-arms? Is that an insurance liability or what? I also feel it's interesting that every member that stuck up for Fatman's is located in North Carolina. Any conclusion to that? Not a day goes by that I regret this purchase. Should've just welded in a crossmember and used a straight axle. Would have been much farther in the end. By the way, the first front clip that Fatman sent us was not even made for our year and make of car. We had to send it back at our own expense. We ended up only being half re-imbursed for the shipping. I guess that was clue #1 to stay away from them. I know this won't help me get something done with Fatman. I want other people aware of the issues I have had. Fatman has been a topic before with this board and others that I view. From reading everything from the different boards, Fatman has a history of poor design and quality control. I just can't believe that nothing has been done to require some sort of safety inspection before the product is sold to the public. It's scary because we all put our lives and other people at risk for their design. We are trusting them to put out a good product. Aloha.
The Jalopy Journal
