Gassers...Successful Suspension Designs, Theories, or Pics...Lets Discuss!!

Man, this has been a great thread so far - learning a lot. I've got a couple of questions that have been rolling around in my head for awhile. First off how does having the front end as high or higher than the rear affect weight transfer during heavy braking? I've always been told that the front brakes do the bulk of the work on a street car and this is why discs are run up front. Another related question would be on the older drag cars with no front brakes, does the high front end help keep the weight to the rear where the rears can slow things down? Lastly and a little OT, I put new coils and springs in my '64 Comet (double and triple checked to make sure the springs were the right ones) and it sits really high like the front suspension is extended all the way down and the rear spring shackles are pulled forward flat against the frame rails. I drove the car around the block and it is rigid. Can I expect these springs to relax any or have I been had by my spring supplier? Everyone acts like they will relax, but the rears have been on almost a year (the fronts about six months) and haven't moved. The car has only been driven about 1/4 mile. Any thoughts?

 

Do you have a pic of the way your shackles look? It sounds kinda like your springs are either too short or too arched. If the shackle cannot move back and forth it's going to feel a bit harsh. It may be possible that your shackle flipped and may just need to be flipped back something that is common in long travel suspensions.
Let's see a few pics if you can.



******Knuckles

 

Here are some pics. These are supposed to be stock 6 cyl spring rates - but I have my doubts. I even removed the rear shackles, greased the frame rails and had people sit on the trunk and the spring eyes barely lined up with the bushings in the frame as the spring slid back. As for the fronts, the control arm angles are ridiculous. Anyone got any thoughts?

 

Let me try again with the pics.

 

And again...

 

Fourth time 's a charm...

 

Did you crank the shackles tight in that position? Maybe try loosening them, bouncing the car then snug them up or use nylock nuts and leave them a little loose. The springs seem a bit short or too arched stock length. You may also want to try taking a spring out from each pack and try that.
As for the front; they also look too long but do you have all the weight on the car? Those springs could be cut if you would like to lower it. How much more will the suspension droop if you were to lift the front?

Do you have a side shot of the whole car? I would love to see it.




******Knuckles

 

I was thinking of cutting the front coils, but was wondering if it will settle later and be too low. As for the back I was thinking of removing a leaf, but am not sure which one would make the most difference.

 

I have never built, helped build, driven, ridden in, peed on, or have been run over by a g***er.

I am simply commenting on engine choices.

As far as nailheads go, I love 'em. They are one of the neatest engines, and definitely one of the most aesthetically pleasing engines ever made (in my humble opinion). Any 40's thru mid 60's Buick I ever own (for the street) will run a nailhead.

That said, I'd never build one for a drag car. Don't get me wrong, any engine can be built to run, but nailheads are pretty limited performance-wise due to the head design (and they are NOT cheap to build). To me, DRAG CARS are for DRAG RACING. I've always bristled at the idea of faux-g***ers with no balls (it almost seems sacreligous or something). But I'm also a guy who doesn't go around telling people what to do with their cars, or whine when people build things I'm not into. Not my car? Not my business.

Anyway, I guess the bottom line is if you're going racing....I agree with C9. Build a 455 / th400. You could start out mild (400 to 450 horses would come easy), and if you would like to be more compe***ive down the road, T/A performance has 523 stroker kits, stage 4 heads, block girdles, and everything else you need to have a 1000 hp fire-breathing Byooik.

Being a Buick guy myself (65 Riv & 59 LeSabre) I have actually considered finding a car like yours to go this exact same route, just to be a little different.

I guess the only other thing I'd worry about is this:....do you really want you WIFE driving around in a g***er-style car? They ain't exactly safest deal going. I'd definitely cage it & put in good restraint system (and make her use it).

Either way, best of luck bro.

 

Repoguy,

Thank you for your input. I was wondering about the output a nailhead could achieve without breaking the bank. I know they are limited to an extent but you could get some good hp ratings from a 425, right? As I'm contemplating this build I have thought of different engine choices and nothing is set in stone as of yet.

As for safety, I think safety is the most important aspect of anything I build, especially for the wife. I will make this thing as safe as anything else she drives. That I promise! She is the most important thing in my life and I'm not one to skimp or under build. I'm a bit of what you call an "overdoer". I should have fun building this one.

I will probably hit the shop tomorrow morning and start on the rear axle and spring set up.

Thanks for the replies fellas!!




******Knuckles

 

Back on up!!


More discussion please.




******Knuckles

 

Here are some suspension options...

 

My Willys has had a stock Willys axle all it's life. The one that was in the car when I bought it had a slight bend to the front in the middle which I think was caused by the guy I bought it from as he winched it off and on a ramp truck by the axle many times when he took ot around to events to try and sell it. We replaced it with a drilled stock axle and have had no problems with it. I've done plenty of big wheel stands over the years with no problems.

 

Algon, not sure what grade stainless rod it was. It's held up great. Adds a little bling to my otherwise rusty axle to boot.

Kustom Karma, I had to put the jack under my leaf springs to get the shackles to line up when I installed them. Got mine from JC witney. Got my V8 coils from there too, they looked like those "six cylinder" coils when they were new. They sag a little with time and use. Don't get the +3" coils from JC witney, they're a lie. They're so stiff and long, you'd need a big block with two superchargers on top to get the front suspension to even move, let alone ride decent.

 

What kind of spring setup are you using on it and also what's connecting it to the frame ?

 

All stock Willys stuff front & rear except for the rear axle & ladder bars. Works good huh!!!!

 

..
cc

 

I'll be looking at these things in a different light come this summer...lol
So it may be practical to use the front frame and suspension and backhalving the rest ?

 

Why would you want to back half one unless it's already junk. They worked back in the 60's and work better today with the good tires and sticky tracks we now have.

 

I saw a pic from the late 50's of an "A" that had quarter elliptical springs with ladder bars and a pan hard bar. Is this a good style? What would be the benefits? Do you think it would hook up any different than leafs?



Thanks,


******Knuckles

 

A. It's OK

B. Gets away from the non-adjustable A spring, easier to fab around for racing and to adjust. There is no frame past the axle on an A to mount the rear of semi elliptics to. Might be lighter.

C. No, If the spring rate and weight are the same.

 

Thank you for the prompt answer and explanation.




******Knuckles

 

I love you man!



******Knuckles

 

I found it on another thread, and just KNEW you'd get a kick out of it. It was recently posted, so i thought the timing was perfect. Glad you liked it

 

I posted it on the "Street Freaks" thread. Thanks for thinking of me.

Oh, and, I never received my club jacket. Damnit!




******Knuckles

 

Many g***ers of the early 60's weren't much more than a engine swap and better brakes.

Any chance your front end could be rebuilt with other GM components that would be a bolt-on?
Or bolt on with minimal alterations?

Perhaps this would be a good place for a different front clip.
Tie it to a frame setup that ties to a floor pan reinforcing setup like some of the later model unibody cars use when drag racing.

When my little brothers drag racing Henry J ran the stock frame and roll bar setup, it had a 'g***er' style front axle.
Handled ok at the strip, but wasn't so great to just drive around.

Later on, he went to a tube frame and more appropriate front suspension.

Make it easy on yourself and leave the car basically stock with a mild engine - bigger the better CID-wise - and some simple ch***is ties, traction bars etc. and enjoy it on both the street and strip.

 

C9, Thanks for your input. The front suspension, steering and box, and engine are all held in by 3 large bolts. That's it! The front suspension has no down travel. When it tops out the a-arms are almost flat to the bottom of the engine cradle but when it bottoms out the cradle, in stock form with stock tires, gets entirely to close to the ground. Not a well designed suspension for any modifications.

These cars have a full unibody "frame" from front to rear. Under the floor boards it's only about an 1" high but everywhere else it's pretty substantial. The front part is actually pretty thick as is the rear where spring perches and shackles would mount.

From what I have gathered to this point with all my figuring I will run 55" rear leaf springs and would like to run about 48" front leafs. The axle I plan on running is about a 4" drop. I like that because it will keep the car a bit lower so not to look like a freak or like I'm trying too hard.

I have gone through many thoughts on this one. Talked with many people. I feel that it will become as close to the real deal but will still be very much streetable with a mildly built 401 nailhead. Even with a mild 401 the HP increase would be dramatic with this car. I plan on setting the engine lower in the compartment.

I will start a new "build" thread for this car soon but I need a few more pics before I start it.

I'm glad I started this thread. The info and discussion has been great.




Thanks,



******Knuckles

 

Bttt...




******Knuckles

 

Keep the info flowin', all of us need ideas from those that built and ran this stuff. Thanks...