Why do Pontiac engines suck ??

First of all I have to say that I have absolutely no problem with Pontiacs and I respect them. The reason I ask this question is because I see alot of late 60s Pontiacs (mostly Firebirds) with Chevy engines! Especially at the drags. I ask the people why don't they run a Poncho motor and they have many excuses,
Its to hard to make any power with them
They have bad bottom ends
There motors are week etc. etc.
Pontiacs had a strong reputation back in the day and from what I can tell these guys just don't know what there doing. I'm a Chrysler guy and have no experience with Pontiacs but it seems to me that if you have a GTO or a Firebird then stick with Poncho power. Am I missing something here?

 

looks like ya answered yourself.

 

Good question. My partner used to run a 68 goat with a nice 400 in it. Easily out do the same for a chevy. Maybe because chevys are a dime a dozen so getting parts cheap is a factor? I'm with you on the mopars.

 

The answer is....... $$$MONEY$$$

It's cheaper to build a 500 hp SBC than a 500 hp poncho. Simple as that.

The poncho has cast rods. A new set of forged ones will run you $500...

That's just one example. The list is long, and not really worth getting into. The pontiac motor is a FANTASTIC one, and it can be built up to make OMG power levels. But for the average joe, it's cheaper and easier to just drop a SBC into it.

 

this is poncho powered so it can't be all that bad

 

I don't think you're missing anything. I love the Poncho motors and thought about a 455 in my 55 chevy but coudn't find one affordable. They have their own distinctive sound and do or can be made to run hard. The guys that use chevys in the Pontiacs as far as I'm concerned kinda cheap out cause let's face it, chevy is considerably cheaper to build then the other. I had a 68 Firebird a few years ago with the 400 in it. Yeah it was a gas gulper for sure but it ran good. When gas prices started going up I couldn't afford to drive it as much and then a few guys suggested I put a Chevy in it. My answer was simple. I said it's a Pontiac and it'll stay Pontiac and if I wanted a Camaro I'd buy one but I'm NOT puttin a sbc in a Pontiac. Pissed em off but they stopped buggin me

 

I like poncho power, they have tons of bottom end torque, the problem is they have a hard time spinning past 7 grand, and as the previous poster's mentioned can be expensive to build. On the same note my friend is building a Model A roadster with poncho power and a supercharger, pontiacs like nailheads, and olds, are I think unique and not just your average cookie cutter motor.

 

For what I put into this engine to make it competative, I could have bought 2 SBC engines. But then, I've always been a Pontiac guy, and know my way around them. Tickelin' 10's in a Street car that's not a SBC is nice...

 

My answer was simple. I said it's a Pontiac and it'll stay Pontiac and if I wanted a Camaro I'd buy one but I'm NOT puttin a sbc in a Pontiac. Pissed em off but they stopped buggin me[/quote]

That reminds me of back when I was playing with some ford flathead v-8's that I had, some clueless indiviguals kept telling me I should replace my 56 chevys inline 6 with the flathead. I still think today, what I did back then; how stupid could you get?

 

anyone can pick up any car magazine and find a good formula to build a "cheap, high power" Chevy motor.

it takes some investigation to build a hot poncho and not have a colossal screw up on Your hands.

but, at the end of the day...Make mine Brand X stuff.

Tremendous Oldsmobiles, Ground shakin Ponchos, torque monster Buicks and high spinning Caddies make my turkey Perkey.

 

Because Chevy guys think power is made at 8000 rpm. <p>Period. <p>I've owned 3 dozen GTOs, and 2 dozen '70s T/As., plus various other bis Ponchos.<p>Chevy guys don't speak Pontiac, just rpm.<p>Save your breath arguing with them.

 

Pontiacs are great. If you run a Pontiac, Olds, or Buick, it's harder to get parts for, even something simple like accessory brackets and pulleys can become a hassel.

You have to do your homework, and sometimes you got to do a lot of hunting for the parts you need, to many people like to take the cheap and easy way out so they use a chevy.

 

There is a book called "PONTIAC Racers & High Performance Handbook " by Pete Angels and John McCarthy. The bible for building a Pontiac.
These guys campaigned Stock and Super Stock record holders for years.
The people who put Chevys in their Pontiac are just lazy. In my opinion.

 

That's John Angeles and Pete McCarthy. Sorry guys.

 

If people would start building the other GM motors the parts might get a little cheaper but it seems to be a follow the leader society and there are alot of cheap asses.

 

Well now...
for whatever tis worth I run a 455 Pontiac in a 31 Ford. Motor waz built in my garage...nothing fancy.. nothing high $$... fact is ain't got no more $$ invested then if it were a 454 Chevy
Where there's a will.. they be a way....
I am well pleased with my set up.. would'nt change to any other brand..
Pontiac Slim

 

Hey wait a minute !! I am a chevy guy more less BUT I still like the pontiacs and hell I've got a 472 Caddy that I was gonna put in my chevy. You can argue with me, shit I like em all

 

Punkabilly1306
Is that a tether car or a short rope you wife has you on?

 

301's sucked...........

 

I'm actually looking for a pontiac 400 for my 68 firebird but usually people want a fortune for them. So I guess people go the easy or cheaper way because there are 350's everywhere not to mention parts are so easy to get.

 

The Pontiac V-8 is an outstanding engine design. It has the most interchange of any of the other brands from the mid 50s through 1981.

It can be made small, can be made big. As small as 194" ( or even smaller with sleeving and destroking ). It can be made as big as around 580" with a stock block, and over 600" with an aftermarket. Even chev cannot say that. I myself have a 389 based stroker I am building to 577" and it is blown too.

On Rods, the post that says Good Pontiac forged rods cost $500 does not know the market. they can be found for about half that price today. As many sets as you wish to buy. However, for most street applications, a properly preppared factory cast rod will get the job done for even less money
On cranks- Pontiac cast cranks are quite strong. In the past, it was a big disadvantage to build a Pontiac if you wanted a forged crank. Now, there are many inexpensive forged cranks available in different strokes too. Most of these stroker cranks fit the much more common 389-400 engine too and can go out to around 461" with much problems and expense.
Heads- lots of options and not so pricey either.

I have well over 500,000 miles on Pontiac engines and that number increases everyday as that is all I drive.
I also have the quickest factory Pontiac block in drag racing currently at 6.77 @200mph. This was done with a 2bbl 1959 389 block out of a common Star Chief. There is much more in it too. The motor so far has spun over 8,400rpm and is desigined to live at 10,000 rpm. Do not tell me they cannot spin. Boy, can they!

Someone show me a 1959 Chev based engine that is or has run 6.70s!

These are great motors for just about ANY application. If anyone has questions about Pontiac motors, interchange, etc, I can help you. Also the PY performance years board is a good place to learn and understand Pontiacs better.

Here are some great sources of Pontiac parts and info too.

Butler Performance
Kauffman Racing
AllPontiac


The availability of good parts has really gottne better recently and the related costs to do so, have come down. And more and better things are on the horizon.
It is a good time to be into Pontiacs.

Steve Barcak

<DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az
Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az
</DIR>

 

Then there is the whole 'money' issue these chev guys claim.
How is it cheaper? Ok, bearings may be cheaper but, who cares?

Are we car guys? Are we gear heads? I know I am? If we love cars and motors so much then WHY is cost so important?

Let me put it in perspective-
Do you wear the cheapest shoes?
Do you always eat the cheapest food? ( that also means water over beer guys)
Do we have, or want, the cheapest girlfriend?
Do we want the cheapest house or shop?

If you were so cheap, you would driving around in an old subaru or something.

If you said yes on all this, then you probably are, or maybe should be, a chev guy.

If a Pontiac costs some more to build, so be it. I like to eat steak once in awhile and some of the other better things in life. that includes the Pontiac V-8.

Steve Barcak
<DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az
Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az
</DIR>

 

If you think Pontiac engines suck, I'll make you a deal.. DRIVE your Chevvie powered hot rod to the HAMB Drags this year and I will spot you a carlength and STILL whip your ass.



-Abone.

 

....one more thing...My Pontiac powered Merc can whip your ass too.





-Abone.

 

and that is no lie.....

 

If any one is near Santa Barbara Calif. I have a friend that is getting rid of his motor and trans from his 68 goat. It has 455 heads on it. used to be a torque monster. Has the old appliance headers still with it. Trans was built when the motor was too. Has been sitting in the garage since about 1983

 

Wait a minute...I have some more..

My Pontiac Powered Studebaker can also whip your ass.






Don't forget my Pontiac powered Henry J.





-Abone.

 

Even my shitty old Pontiac powered truck runs a 13 second 1/4.





Yes, they sure do suck. -Abone.

 

You have some nice toys there Flame

 

Damn, Tell us How You really feel about it, Jeff!