Why do Pontiac engines suck ??

What I sometimes wonder if built a SBC the same way I built the Pontiac as far as used the same type/brand pistons and same engine prep with a factory cast iron head like a 2.02 head and spent the same amount of money how it would have run? The SBC is lighter and does make power different r.p.m. range but how much faster would it have been, who knows. I like the Pontiac's power band and wth a stock stall converter hooked to the th350 it pulls hard and is fun on the 1st to 2nd gear change. I built the engne to live in a power band that it would be happy in and give me a long life ( I hope ). I never built huge money engines as far as heads and roller cams and stroker engines ( not that I would not like to ) but I always just make the engine as reliable as I can with the money I have to spend. Its fun having the Pontiac because you just dont see alot of them even in full body cars. I made 27 runs at Thompson at the Gasser Reunion in 08 and only thing I adjusted was the carbs and ran the hell out of it wth no problems.

Jon


Thompson Ohio Gasser Reunion 08


Burn out at Thompson 08


Thompson 08


Winter sucks!!

 

He did, and I concur, us BOP guys have got to stick together..

Hmmmm.... yeah they weigh 75 lbs. more, but that is also the the 455 as well. And the BBC is heavier. As for displacement, the Pontiacs are usually larger than the garden variety SBC. Most SBC's are 350cid, where the majority of the Pontiacs are 50 to 155 cubic inches larger. I guess your math is special... And then we have to figure what kind of racing are you talking, sounds like roundy round racing at which point I say "who the fuck cares about a bunch of guys going in circles"

 

I have a sbc in my 50 Merc because I Totalled out my 63 Impala SS & put the Engine in the Merc
I am a Ford man at Heart but when I raced I built a bbc because the Price to build a Nascar
bbf was out of Sight & I just couldn't see putting all that money in to that Engine
so I built a bbc & did very Good with it 427 in a 64 Chevelle SS
in 1974 I did 3, 9 second runs back to back & Blew the Engine on the Last Run just to
Prove a Point Stock Bore & Stroke 1 4barrel Carb & 4 speed you can go 9's & I dit it
so I like Chevy's
just my 3 cents

 

Thats all well and good and well documented I'm sure many times over,and I dont doubt you at all.
But I have to ask, What does this have to do with Pontiacs? is there more to the story?

 

everybody keeps saying that you put a sbc in a Rod or Kustom because its the esay way to go
instead of using a Poncho, Hemi, or Olds
Most Guys put in what they Have!
and thats why I said what I said
its up to the Indiviaul
There is a 31 Pont Coupe in the shop with a 455 in it & he wanted it that way
also there is a Rat Rod that a Y block is going in it when its Done
a lot of guys put in what they Have or Like
just my 3 cents

 

I had always been told the main reason people drop a chevy in cars is that the oil pan on the fits great with more steering set ups. A ford would be a way better choice in my book since the distributor is in the front and motor is smaller. But if you can just drop a chevy in with no work. I can see people doing that. Most don't want to take the time to do things that are not so easy I find. I am not anti Chevy or for any other brand. I am a Mopar guy but have owned most other brands as well. I had a 327 in my Datsun truck because it dropped in with no trouble I am sure. So I can't complain

 

I haven't seen anyone "just throw a chevy motor they had laying around" into their rod in quite some time. In fact, Myself and my broke-dick buddies typically buy the motor we want to run before we have other "important parts" such as brakes, wheels, bodies, or anything to bolt any of it to.

por example'

I am building a 467 inch Oldsmobile. with malice. I want to see Jeff's expressions change on the way down the track. (he is so expressive...ha!)

My buddy Ghettoshelf is building a small block ford. he will have to move about 6 small block chevies just to dig it out of the engine room. My reccomendation is that if You are running naturally aspirated once his truck is together, don't test him.

Jonesy keeps going back and forth between Windsor "straight up" and windsor "stroked up"- that don't happen by accident.

Flynt has been piecing together a 62 421 s.d. for this "phantom coupe" he wants. He has the motor, and doesn't even have any of the rest of the car yet!

Point being this..I don't know anyone who just happened too stumble over an s.b.c. and kick it into their rod "just because."

Personally, I just want the biggest damn motor possible. But, I have been dropped on my head a few times, and don't have a caddy 500 to spare.

 

Nope, not special math, just bigger SBC's.

You can reliably extract 434 cubic inches from an SB400 block, and still be at least 75 lbs lighter than that 455 Poncho. That 75 lbs may not mean that much to a drag guy, I dunno, 'cause I'm not a drag racer, but being that it's in the nose of the car, and kind of high up, that 75 lbs might as well be 1,000 lbs in a circle track car. With no minimum weight in the dirt cars, that's one hell of a disadvantage, and in one hell of a bad place to boot.

Also, when I made that comparison, that assumed iron heads on both motors, but if you're looking at making any power to speak of, you'll be running aluminum heads and intake on the SBC, which is easily another 75 lbs in weight reduction. Can you buy or modify any alum heads to fit the popular Poncho motors? (Honest question, I've never owned or ran a Pontiac)

Plus, I don't know what kind of HP numbers you'll get out of a Poncho, but that 434 will reliably produce ~1.5-1.75 HP per CID. What kind of HP density does a Pontiac have if it's well built?

If you want to run a Pontiac, that's fine, have a good time. You don't have to look down your nose at anyone who chooses not to, just cause you can't understand their preference. That's exactly what you're claiming injury from in this thread. Other makes looking down their nose at you.

Those of us who belong to the SBC fraternity, we have our reasons, and most of the time, it's not just because we lack imagination. It could be that we've decided to run what works for us and what we like, and not worry about what the car guy cognoscente "thinks" about it. Just like you Poncho floggers.

It amazes me how much snobbery there is in this hobby, and particularly here at times. Some folks gotta judge and denigrate others to feel good about themselves I guess.

Me, I just want to see guys building cool shit in their own shops the way they want to built it. If that includes a Chevy motor, that's cool, if not, no big. Same for a Pontiac, Ford, Mopar, etc. I just don't get why there is always somebody post up to piss on some guy's head 'cause of how he's doing something.

Oh, and you poke fun at circle burners, when you prefer to spend tens of thousands of dollars to go in a straight line for ten to twelve seconds. Yeah, we're the retarded ones.

Honestly, I'd just as soon we agree to disagree on the degree of stupidity of our chosen hobbies, and leave it at that.

I spend a ton of money to go in circles and ricochet off of other cars for a few hours a weekend during the summer. You spend a ton of money to go in a straight line for a few seconds a few times on a few nights during the summer.

I'd wager normal folks think we're both insane.

 

Good point I guess....

Yes, there are a couple different suppliers offering alum. heads for the poncho now-a-days.

 

434cid, that's tiny, hell you can get up into the 500's stroking a Poncho
Plus the Poncho has torque, and lot's of it, not only that but you can get those big HP numbers from the Pontiacs as well. Of course I prefer to turn right and left, not just go straight... and yes all the aluminum goodies are available for the Poncho. I wish I could say that for the Buick. I'm a Buick guy, big Nailheads mostly.. But I tend to stay with the BOP stuff if I stray....

 

You can get aluminum Pontiac heads from Edelbrock, Butler, Kauffman and Wenzler these days. You can even get aluminum blocks if you want to spend some $$$.

 

Uh oh I just thought of something.....what is with those Aluminum Pontiac heads made for SBC....why would they do that?

 

Makes um flow better

 

Thought I should clarify, 'cause I didn't say so explicitly in my other posts.

I do not think Pontiac engines "suck", I just prefer the old vanilla Chevy.

Also, if you have enough money and enough time, I'd imagine you could make damned near any engine block into damned near any displacement and make power with it. I had a buddy who had a 502 cube SBC built on an aftermarket bowtie iron block and a big pile of hundred dollar bills.

Ran like a mad bastard. Started out in an early 70's Nova, but I think it lives in a 4WD pulling truck now. Not sure how well it's doing in the truck, but it was a mean mother in the Nova. Way too much power to put down through the suspension and tires he had at the time, but fun none-the-less.

There's an older fellow around the Rolla/Salem area that I saw at a park/cruise deal with a red GTO that I believe had a 400 in it. It had an automatic transmission, and when he dropped it into drive from park, the thing chirped the tires. Dunno if that's a transmission tuning thing or what, but it at least sounded very strong. Pretty car too.

 

Just curious Coolhand, show us your ride.

 

My HAMB friendly "ride" would be this '36 Ford I'm working on.



Haven't gotten real far on it yet, still in the "tear down and find the rot" phase.

Build thread is here: http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=304379

The cars I found my love of SBC's in are open wheel outlaw dirt modifieds. Like IMCA cars without a rule book.



I've got ten years behind the wheel of one of those. Done my own building and wrenching too. If it got done, it was me and my old man that did it.

I learned a lot hands on like that, but after high school I went to college and got an engineering degree. I also became a machinist and started a small manufacturing company.

Are those credentials good enough to have an opinion?

Where's your ride?

 

pontiac motors i,ve always been a fan of and i also like sbc,s some think that guy,s have sbc,s cause thier cheap wrong they build them because they like them ,or as some guys will build a inline ,ford,or mopar or any other gm motor if you a gear head you build the motor you like

 

Mickey Thompson didn't have any trouble making power with them.

 

The Only Thing I Can Say IS Why Did "GM" Put SBC In The Pontiac, Olds And Even The Buick's. Reason Being The SBC Lasted Longer And Didn't BLOW Up Near As QUICK.

 

Just a boring old Pontiac coupe with a boring old hemi.

 

I just had to post this one. Id post the photo of engine too but it wont resize on here over 1024 pix width??? US Outlaw Nationals winner.

Pontiac powered Ford Fairmont 10.5 inch tire car. It runs low 5's in the 1/8 thats like est. low 8's in the 1/4. Heres the draglist article on this car click!

 

I like that coupe.

Certainly an excellent type of boring.

 

Pontiacs don't have any inherent problems that I know of, but they aren't cheap to build. PS-a big roller cam mandates some support work in the lifter area

 

WRONG!!! It was just cheaper. Simple as THAT

 

Ok ... OR ....Just maybe, it was corperate downsizing and the economic principal of duplicity elimination. Eliminating the duplication of automobile motorvation. Look it up on your interweb. That was a bean counters decision forced by govt restrictions.
When that started happening your GM product came with a corporate motor. Could have been anything in any one of them and it was anything for a while. That was in preperation of the up and coming emission and mpg req. Gm new they were going to retro fit 1956 technology with computer controled systems. Since the offshore units ran the sbc GUESS WHAT MOTOR GOT THE RETRO-FIT?

This was mostly an inteligent convesation. Thanks for the warning of "The Only Thing I Can Say Is" before you did.

 

My dad was a pontiac guy when I was a kid so I kinda inherited the love of them. We bought a pontiac with the 2nd new V/8 [first one was a flathead v/8 in 32 pontiacs....design came with the Overland car when GM bought the Overland company and merged it with the pontiac line] and what a difference it was after owning string of stodgy old straight 8 cars.
I use to buy the lightest 55-57 Pontiacs I could find and slide a 59-60 Poncho 389 in the hole because it's a completely bolt-in proposition except for grinding a little shoulder off the crank flange to mount the 55-56 hydro fluid coupling against the crank flange..
Anyway, I'd go looking for 55-57 chevys to race. I did it mostly because I loved watching the faces of the chevy guys when I'd walk away from all the 283 cars and most of the 327 cars...and at that time [late 60s, early 70s] it was actually a lot cheaper to go the Pontiac route....I mean, nobody wanted a used 55-57 Pontiac sedan or even the chieftain hardtops...eveybody wanted the chevys and fords.
I could strip a 57 Poncho sedan down to 3300 lbs to compete with the 2800 lb chevies and I didn't need to wory my rear axle was gonna break.
I'd use a 50-60 Bellhousing to get a used Muncie tranny to bolt-up. It was easy to find 4.56 and 4.88 gears for the pontiac housing...just hang around the drag race guys..
It cost more to make a 389 make power and to get it to live but it was worth it to me to have something different and fun. Everybody looked at those old 50s Pontiacs as old man's cars. Heh heh..I loved playing with those old ponchos.

 

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/CBs9RivBZ8w&hl=en&fs=1&rel=0 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true"></EMBED>



8.90s, nearly 150 mph, 3600 lbs, 10.5 tire, yeah Pontiac motors suck.

 

HOLY SHIT, that fucker's SICK! Must watch again.....and again

 

Well, I must admit, its got my tinwork in it,, thats what makes it so fast!

 

I helped a friend with her Pontiac 350. It was one headache after another partswise with it, and it was expensive. She said it made 350hp on the dyno and it was pretty stock, but I never saw the dyno sheet with my own eyes.