Pulling my hair out, FE Probs. SHOULDA USED A SBC

Heres the deal, ive got this fresh 396CI Fe ford.

9.6:1 Comp Cams 268H cam, decent heads, 1960 360hp 352 aluminum factory 4bbl intake.

I cannot get this thing to run right. i CANNOT get the initial Timing BTDC. It likes to run at 10 after or so, 5 istn bab, but you try and get it before 0 it wants to labor and die.

i took it all apart, checked the timing set, it lines up Straight up Dots and everything.

What am i missing? its gutless, and wants to heat when i just set the timing where it wants to idle right.

I need some input before i do something drastic and stick a SBC in it and keep the hood closed.

My next step in my mind is rip it all apart again, stick a degree wheel on it and go from there.

Any input?

thanks

Aaron

 

Are you sure you have the right (or a good) balancer on it? And the pointer is in the right place?

It should have a hard time running at all with timing set at 10* ATDC. In fact, it probably wouldn't run at all.

Step 1 is to measure cylinder #1 for actual TDC and see how it compares to the marks you're using to time the engine, and go from there.

 

I've got a nice 390 Caddy I'll swap you straight up with.
Seriously, I cannot figure out what the hell would be doing that. The balancer would be good thought, but it ran fine before. The marks are supposed to be both straight up? Not meeting like a SBC? Did you ever do anything to the dizzy? Maybe the weights are hung up? I'll call you...

 

seems like my dad's '66 fairlane had an issue with this, and the problem was acutually with the ignition or the regulator...spark just wasn't getting there.

 

Timing marks are good, its got a brand new Pro Products SFi damper on it.. both of them lined up new and old...

i can screw with the Timing, hell i can bump it all the way up to 20 ATDC and it still runs!

 

Check for real weak ignition. If the cam is in fact timed correct and the balancer and pointer are correct, weak ignition is next on the list with correct firing order. Putting No. 1 on tdc and verifying that all is correct should be done. When you start out with something new it's not safe to assume that all is well. Have you checked to see if the lifter preload is correct? Is this points or Duraspark?

 

its got all new Pertronix in it and new MSD wires and Coil.. thats all fine.

 

Verify.

Checking for TDC is easy to do and will make sure you're basing the rest of your troubleshooting on good information.

 

Ran into a similiar problem years ago. The dizzy was off by 1 tooth. Possibility???

 

Is the distributor in correctly? If it's stabbed in a couple teeth off it will actually be firing the next cylinder, not #1. Turn the engine to TDC on #1 and make sure the rotor is actually pointing to the #1 terminal.

 

I verifird that, i stick a dowen in the sparkplug hole, turned it till it was all the way up, the mark lined up. took off the valvecover and made sure both valves were closed. that should be TDC right?

 

if the Dist was in wrong the thing wouldent even run... i can go out and start it right now..

 

Exactly. Do not pass Go until you check the timing mark location for accuracy - There's too many ways for it to be wrong.

Had a problem like this on a truck once, it turned out that the distributor was assembled backwards and it actually retarded as it revved up. Couldn't get to the damper to see the marks with a timing light, so it went undiagnosed for a while - drove us nuts.

Does the mark go in the right direction when you rev the engine up?

 

Did you convert it to adjustable rocker arms? If you did not, check it with a vacuum gauge. I bet you have some valves hanging open.

 

It sounds like the timing marks are off on the balancer. I had a 350 that wouldn't time with the light, I set it by ear and it ran great. If yours won't time by ear then the cam might not be in time with the crank. You might need to degree in the cam. On SBC's the dots on the timing gears go together, but with a comp cam they both go up. It works either way, just make sure the distributor is pointing to #1 with the #1 piston on the top of the compression stroke.

 

Yes it will, but it will run like crap and the timing will be way off. Been there..done that.

 

I had that happen on an old truck. They sell different length pushrods, had to buy shorter ones.

 

Maybe get a new after market intake. The one you have is probably junk, I had the samething with an early intake It looks great and thats it........

 

Coil.

 

have a vacuum canister? running two breathers? Had a 390 that was rebuilt for a car.. but never hooked up.. couldnt figure it why it would not run right.. thought it was timing..ended up being a vacuum problem..guy had thrown all the crap out..

 

Look guys, i know all of this stuff works, i didnt change anything with this engine before i rebuilt it other than the cam. this engine was together with these exact parts before and ran fine.

It does not have adjustable rockers on it. evferything in this engine as far as rebuild parts is brand new.

it idles fine when the timing is up.

but its gutless, revs slow, and wants to heat. it got hot on me idling in -10 degree weather this winter.

this is a timing issue, i know it. but the dots on the cam line up at TDC. is this a bad timing set?

i think i answerred my own question, the only way to find this out for sure is to yank the engine and put a degree wheel on it.

unless someone has an idea that ihavent tried yet.

the COmp Cams tech line was even stumped.

 

Eyeball the coil is brand new! hahaha

 

Thats your answer for everything now, isn't it?

 

I just can't imagine that it would even run at 20 degrees after. Don't take this wrong but you are checking timing with the light hooked to the front cyl on the pass side right? (not like a Chevy)

 

After 3 weeks of pulling my hair out, 5 "used" coils and a new cam and lifter set.........yes.

 

Hey Eyeball check your firing order make sure your wires are all correct i had this same problem with a comp cam in my 352 FE and someone had swithed my wires around on me.Had all new ignition MSD Blaster 2 coil,8.8mm MSD wires,Billet MSD Distributer and MSD 6AL box.If thats not it your possibly 180 out on the cam timing.

 

So, Does Yes means it is running with "Cojones" ? Did you degree the cam in Initially? What was the bottom line problem/solution?

 

I 2nd slickster51 50 make sure your fireing order is right not by the wires. On the cam make sure you didn't get a cam that has a different fireing order from stock. I have had it happen in the past. Some cams change the order in whitch they fire SBC has one that changes I belive it's 5 & 7 will not hurt to look at it. hope it helps

 

It DOES sound like a timing issue to me, but not a mechanical timing (cam phasing) issue.

Leave the engine internals alone for now and try to figure out why the ignition timing has to be so far off in order for it to run.

Make sure you're looking at #1.

 

Its a 4&7 swap on chevy, Ford doesn't do that,but if i remember right FE's depending on what year there were two different firing orders one later and an earlier one check an old chilton.Also they do sin counter clockwise unlike a chevy that spins clockwise.They are like the oldsmobile and buick and pontiac.