Pulling my hair out, FE Probs. SHOULDA USED A SBC

Yes i am using the Vacuum advance, i believe its working, i suck on it, it moves the plate in the dist.

Yes i have been chicking the timing with the vacuum advance unhooked.

I havent put a vacuum gauge on it yet.

im not real worried about the cam being wiped out, i used Rotella, and the Lucas break in additive.

im just thinking that the cam must be out of time. reguardless of what the timing set says.

im gonna have to rip it out and degree it and go from there.

thanks for all the advice.

 

A much better way is to verify TDC if your balancer has slipped is by valve events and put timing tape on the balancer. Its good to know exactly what you have. Intake valve closes on the dial indicator, then TDC through the #1 plug hole. Tape it up to 60° from your new TDC so you can verify your vacuum advance too. You'll be glad you did. I don't really trust dial back lights either. Detonation is nothing to fool around with. Even a silent detonation will eventually beat the bearings out.

 

Don't forget to check the dowel from the top gear to cam, they have worked their way out. In fact some replacement ARP cam bolts and washers had a problem with this not getting a grip on the dowel and it would gradually vibrate out. The reason this is so important is that other makes have three bolts to locate the top gear. the FE (and others)just has a dowel pin and one bolt to time the top gear to the cam.

 

i have never used a dial back timing light. This tuning stuff is like greek to me, ive never really had to deal with it much.

this is a learning curve for me. welding and fab is fine, this tuning stuff i just have no experience with.

 

I have been doing mine without a distributor machine so they arent as good as they could be, but all the ones I have done for other people were happy to just not to have to deal with the points anymore. I have a friend who has a sun distributor machine that has been sitting in his shop for years unused, when he get's his shop cleared up enough to get to it, it will go to it's new home in my garage. I wish I had it now it would be so much easier to fine tune a dist (it would be alot easier on my back not having to be leaning over fenders to make changes), but since he's giving it to me I think I can wait till he can get to it.

 

same deal on my 287 short block. When i put the thing together the timing marks were all lined up nice and straing but when i fired it up it ran like shit. Afterwards the marks still looked fine from far away but when I took a close look it was 1 tooth off. I re adjusted the timing and it ran like a champ.

 

Good points are getting hard to find, but I have put Durasparks in because they are just so damn tough. You can use a GM 4 pin mudule with a heat sink too, I have done that. But a box is so cheap its hardly worth the trouble. The setup on my 390 FE truck is a '78 (you heard right, original '78) model pickup coil, guts, coil, and with the wiring loom out of a junkyard 351M or 400 truck, with a Wells box from AZone. I would have used the original one if someone hadn't already nabbed it. 11 years of trouble free service knock on wood. Great ignition! My machine is two hours away. My nephew dials them in for me now because i cant see well enough. Its an old Rotunda. They are going to bury me with it!

 

For a factory ignition durasparks hard to beat (I've done complete duraspark swaps into so many cars I've lost count, and never had any complaints about them either), the high dollar MSD distributors uses some of the exact same parts that the duraspark distributor does.

 

----#### Whoa Bill !! I have had that happen too !! I took a cam out of the box and it was a full fledged race cam Solid Lift and all that they had stamped as a 268 H !! You could see from the shape of the lobes that it was not a lo lift street cam. This is another reason you should degree the cam as you will catch these mistakes >>>>.

 

could the dist be wired backwards, cw in stead of ccw. I did this and it would run but with the same symptons as you say. pulled my hair out till I discovered my stupidity.

 

A couple of people have said it, but it's the cam being 180 degrees off. When you put the chain on and the timing mark on the crank sprocket is straight up, the cam timing mark should meet it, meaning it's at the bottom. That's a pretty universal thing. That's how my FE is, that's how all of my dad's FE are as well. Luckily this is a stock rebuild for the most part and you haven' had any valves kissing the pistons. You need to get that fixed before running it any more.

 

Aaron, seriously, before you rip the damned motor apart take your valve cover off, turn the motor by hand and when the #1 intake valve closes bring it to TDC and check your distributor to make damned sure it's on the #1 cylinder...I'm willing to bet you're simply just firing 180 degrees off...if not, then you can go ahead and rip the motor apart...

 

Alright, you say you are sure that ignition system is installed correctly, well, what else is there. The bad timing would cause heat, but what would cause the bad timing? Maybe you have an intake leak and it's leaning out real bad. Try spraying carb cleaner around the intake, listen for a change in RPM. Or, maybe while you had the motor out, a gerbil crawled up your tailpipe and built a nest and now you're all blocked up. Have a friend look up from the back with a flashlight to see if you can coax the gerbil out. Careful though I've read about noses being broken with this technique, maybe just have someone blip the throttle while you hold your hand over the exhaust. Let us know what you come up with.

 

mine was supposed to be a "rowdyish" hydraulic roller. it was off by 12 degrees on the nose. it did fun stuff like turn the headers red hot, not run for shite, and You couldn't touch more than about 8 degrees of total timing.

since then, I am an Isky/Schneider man. that little bit of extra cash means You get what You asked for, and support that knows how to operate a degree wheel. (hell, I am pretty sure the gal at the front desk of Isky knows more about camshafts than most of the guys on the phones at Comp.)

 

OK color me stupid. Never the less I'll tell this one anyway.

I was putting ignition wires on an FE once a very long time ago, I forgot that the distributer turned in a different direction than what I was accustomed to at the time. it would fire off and run but the only way it would keep running was if it was timed way slow.

Anyway it makes me look really dumb but it happened. Not to say that you could possibly make the same mistake.

After I fiddled with it for awhile one of my buddies came over and pointed out to me that the wires were backwards. Is there a support groupe for that?

 

PnB ,exactally what happened to me. just forgot the direction.It will run.

 

Just because a component is new does not mean it is good, it only means it has not been proven. JC

 

After reading this whole thread, someone already said it, crank the dist advanced till it runs right without pinging. I had the exact same thing with an economy balancer before. my$0.02

 

PS. the comp 268 is a "chevy" grind intended for sbc with 8-8.5 compression ratio.

 

Some sharp guys here....

http://www.network54.com/Forum/74182/

 

Actually thats a universal grind for comp cause i had the exact same cam in my 352 so it is a 268 look under ford cams they are the same lifts!

 

This Issue is why I never install a Cam without using a degree wheel any more. Dot to Dot on the gears don't mean much in Degrees any more. I also had a Pertronix unit last spring that was out of Rotor Phase. It was installed per directions but was totally Off. It started but would Not pull R.P.M's. Pertronix stood behind there product and corrected it for me. I love there product. If you were to bring this Headache into my Shop, first thing I would do is degree the cam and check timing mark to pointer for true TDC. Some times Shit just happens and we don't catch it going together. Any one can change parts but you always need to think past the directions.
Best of Luck to ya, The Wizzard

 

On ANY cam in ANY FE with over .500" lift you need to have adjustable pushrods and/or check for proper geometry and buy custom length push rods so that you can dial in rocker geometry and also get the desired 0.020"ish lifter preload.

-Bigchief

 

I don't see where he posted lift but Big Chief is correct. If you are using pushrods that are to long, even at T.D.C. and both rockers parrell you could be holding both valves open slightly. To check that bring #1 up to that point and put an air charge in the Cyl. If it holds you OK, if not now you know some of the problem. You really need adj, rockers with a performance Cam. Rocker Geo. is crutial as well.
The Wizzard

 

What do you expect; the so called Professional Products are Made in China; I would not touch one with a 10' pole just for that reason alone; check out Damper Doctors, a company that specializes in refurbishing dampers; they may have one done up for your 390.

Also; I hope in the title SBC means Small Block Chrysler!! I love my 318s!and almost bought one of P.P.'s Crosswind intakes for one f them until I found out they are Chinese! so I skipped and went with a Eddy Performer.

 

It is .494" lift at the valve.

 

GOT'CHA here,Can I make FE's run? Ask the boy's from Van Nuys Blvd in the '70's. You've got several problems going on. You are on the right track for one of the problems, CAM TIMMING, not to be confused with IGNITION TIMMING. They are as different as night and day. Because you are getting hot AND no power, your CAM is advanced to far. Retard it (the cam, NOT THE IGNITION TIMMING PLEASE!!!). Another problem is you are not jetted properly, you need to be richer (BIGGER JETS , DO NOT think your air/fuel mixture screws have ANYTHING to do with the jetting of your carb. they do not!!) to make this easier, feel free to call me 1.360.455.8341, ANYTHING to stop you from putting a Chevy where it does NOT belong!!!!

 

Instead of listening to guys blaming the PerTronix let's think about that for a moment. The PerTronix only replaces the points. If there were a problem with it, it would be either voltage or spark related. Either of these scenarios would be a weak spark energy which would mean you would need more advance (not retarded) to compensate. So those arguments are complete BS.
Second, it not the "Piece of Shit" Pro Products balancer either. Even if the marks were off on the balancer all that would mean is the marks are off. Once you timed it to where it will run decent at idle, it should run like a raped ape regardless of the timing marks. The timing marks would look wacky but it would run fine and since it doesn't theres more expert opinions that don't mean a thing.
It's not an incorrectly installed distributor either. Look, you can put the distributor anywhere your little heart desires and as long as you put the plug wires in the right order and time the spark to the motor so that the spark event happens at the right time, the motor will run right. The only exception to this I can think of is some VW distributors that had a slightly advanced #3 cylinder in the dist to make it run cooler. People talk about a distributor being 180 out or a tooth off, but in reality that only relates to where they have the rotor pointing vs the wire location in the cap. As long as you can turn the body of the dist enough to get the proper timing it doesn't really matter where you put #1.
Because of your symptoms, it pretty much has to be valve train related. Either your pushrods are too long and holding the valves open (or too short and not opening enough) or the cam timing is off. I really don't think it can be anything else. And I'm really voting for the cam timing

 

A lot of good advice here. If you had the Block decked and the Heads surfaced you just created a longer pushrod if your still using the ones that came out of the motor prior to the rebuild. If the heads have been done once before your headed for problems.
I'm looking forward to finding out what the actual Problem's are. I doubt just one item is going to fix it. Keep up posted.
The Wizzard

 

I always mark #1 TDC on the balancer before I bolt the heads on.

Find #1 TDC with a dial indicator or degree wheel W/a piston stop.

Petronix is money wasted (JMHO)