Gassers...Successful Suspension Designs, Theories, or Pics...Lets Discuss!!

I'm thinking there has to more on this topic that has not been discussed. Anyone want to add to this?



BloodyKnuckles

 

i am building a 54 chevy gasser, and i have an axle out of a 54 chevy truck, what size spring is best to use?

 

I used the Speedway springs. 3yrs. now , and no problems.

 

thats what i have been hearing but where the hell do they have them listed i have tried searchin for em, but i cant find them. i'll try searchin more, but i must be about a retard

 

If you use a transverse leaf set up in front you can use a dirt car spring perch set up made by Bob Hindman here on the HAMB. It is extremely adjustable in the vertical plane.(nearly 8") and has weight jacks built in so you can change weight bias left to right.
Also if you use the transverese front leaf set up,long old school ladders in the rear act like a gigantic anti sway bar and helps control roll.
If you use the ladder set up with parralel leafs you need spring sliders to allow the springs to move without binding.

 

Hmm...maybe they don't sell the springs seperate. Call 1-800-979-0122 and ask them.

 

I posted these a while ago and with the story about the man who gave me the info.I dont know how to make them larger so if someone feels inclined to do so please do.I have known jack merkel since i was 12 and he has always treated me with kindness and respect.His last gasser used a open differential,thats rite no posi or spool.He always said if your suspention is set right there is no need for either.
This car was built in 1966-67 and using a design from the jaguar he was able to run the car with a set of coil springs and one latterbar.a light locator bar on the drivers side kept the axle in place.depending on the axle ratio the formula is above to tell where location and length are needed.
The car ran 8.50s about 150ish with a bbc.The only breakage was a set of spyder gears from time to time,they were canceld out so the rear acted like a posi so they were working hard.
Loading the rear evenly was the key,to fine tune the set up he ran a truck battery in the trunk and put it on angle iron rails from d/s to pass side and slid the battery to add weight over the wheel needing more load.Once the sweet spot was determaned,he locked the batt down and never touched it.
Keeping the suspention from binding was verry important,so the torqe arm was samwitched between two rails as guides and greased frequntly,simiular to a f-body camaros torque arm next to the trans mount.I was thinking a bearing style floater from a floater style leaf spring set up(sloted type).
Just another way to skin the cat.

 

Just keep in mind that you're dealing with heads that have tiny valves (1.875 intake / 1.5 exhaust), and don't have much (if any) room for to put in bigger ones. I've heard of guys squeezing a 1.6 exhaust valve in there, but that's about it. This is obviously a limiting factor as far as power is concerned. They make mountains of torque, but they don't breathe for shit compared to other similar displacement engines like, a 427 chevy for instance.

 

Don't know if this helps,

 

Do they ride well? And what's the length on the car loaded?




BloodyKnuckles

 

Its a firm ride, for sure. However, it hasn't jared any of the old fillings out of my teeth yet ! Seriously, everyone who has ridden in my car has said they were surprised at how good it rode.
The springs are 32 in. long.

 

i prefer the parallel set up i think it looks right. on a chevy at least. and it seems to me like it would ride better, less roll and such, but i'll look into it. definitely. i'm tryin to not spend a mountain of money, but still want it safe as possible.

 

Everyone knows Blairs speed shop did alot of gasser suspensions, Has anyone got info on the tosion bar type front ends they did. Looks like another viable option.

Dave

 

Any more input/opinions?

 

I'll go WAY out on a limb here and ask if anybody has considered using a two-wheel drive Jeep front end for a rod project.

It's a tubular axle with coil springs and a four-link leading arm system that also uses a sway bar and a track bar for side-to-side location of the axle under the vehicle. They use disc brakes, Saginaw steering boxes and are rugged enough for off-road work.

Just a thought.

 

Having been around Jeeps for a long time, I have thought long and hard about this. My only complaint is aesthetics. It, to me, looks like a 4x4 axle without the center section. The knuckles have large holes in them for axle shafts to fit through. The upside is that they are pretty damn stout. If you look through the knuckle to the axle you'll see how thick these axles are. They are plentiful, parts are cheap and they are 5 on 4 1/2.

If you out to build a budget gasser without the "period" parts I think this is a good alternative route to explore.



BloodyKnuckles

 

You should post some images of your setup thus far. I am sure that your progress will inspire a few people that may be intimidated by the subject.

 

I had one of the Jeep Comanche axles mentioned above. I thought about using it under my 41 Plymouth, but as mentioned the jeep axles are ugly.
They are also front steer, so they don't look good under a gasser or hot rod.

 

my 2cents........
I'm in the planning stages of hot rodding by cj3b and plan on using a straight axle in front. I've also been looking at all the jeep parts as well.I have a 93 cherokee with the straight front axle, as well as a 47 willys truck that has a front axle with about a 2 inch drop. I want to keep all of the stock front sheet metal in it's factory position but like the look of an pushed forward front axle. To do this on the cheap (relatively speaking) and using the stock jeep frame, I can't use a parallel leaf set up because the forward perches are already mounted on the front edge of the frame, this frame has a slight upwards bend in the front, shorter springs would have to be really short to move the axle forward with parallel springs.
Thus my reason for looking at a transverse sping design. Also have read alot about the nose high cars and how some racers switched to transverse design due to how squirely the parallel design could get when the front end dropped during hard breaking at the end of the quarter. What I'm trying to figure out is the best way to do a transverse design that is save for the steet. I also know that the transvers design was used more on lighter cars, but I found this article and thought those reading this might find it interesting.

http://www.rodandcustommagazine.com/techarticles/0705rc_gasser_chassis_build/article_pg2.html

 

My Gasser has a speedway dropped axle and hairpins with a transverse leaf and the dirt track perch mentioned earlier with a Mustang rack&pinion nailed right to the front of the axle.
To allow for bump and extension in the steering linkage I used a GM double d shaft with the nylon heated out of it and installed grease zerks in the holes where the nylon was injected and this allows the column shaft to slip in and out as the car moves up and down.
Voila,no bumpsteer due to short drag links or crossteer,or whatever other reasons one can think of.
It isn'texceptionally pretty but it is very functional. If I was gonna do one on a sreet/hot rod I would use a rear steer rack of some sort and put it behind the axle for aesthetic reasons.

 

Exactly

If you must have a staight axle a straight tube axle is on option. A lot of guys use econoline axles but straight no drop is a good option.

I spent a lot of time on drag strips, and old air strips turned drag strip from the later '50s on and there were a lot more gassers with stock suspension and lifted a little than there ever where straight axle cars.

Not to say that straight axle cars are not correct just not the norm as I recall.

My deal was always lifted just enough to make it level and 90/10 uplocks. My current gasser build is getting set up that way. Maybe not the uplocks we'll see when the time comes.

If you insist on a straight axle please put the shackles on the back of the spring. The front of the spring is just bad geometry. Some will say I'm wrong, but I'm not and if they don't stop useing their sphincter for a necklace they'll probably suffocate.

 

yo baby, could you post up some pics of that front end set-up?

 

My 41 Willys has the stock set up in the front with front shackles, no problems here after 7 years of racing. It's not a rocket ship but 10.40's-10.50's @ 123-125 it ain't no slouch either. From what I've learned both ways work fine.

 

My axle is made by me, its solid 45mm hardend steel runs on parallel leafs and i suffer with bump steer, so im following this thread intently heres a thread i started over on a uk forum and never realy got an answer but some funny replies
http://www.nsra.org.uk/newforum/showthread.php?t=17054

Or for those that dont like links it started like this ,,,,,
<HR style="COLOR: #d1d1e1; BACKGROUND-COLOR: #d1d1e1" SIZE=1> <!-- / icon and title --><!-- message -->
It's a cold bitter nite as you sit in the cafe not to many rods or customs have braved the cold but your with you normal bunch of friends making new ones talking cars and as the evening draws to an end and every one filters down you get the odd few hanger ons awaiting the obligatory leaving scenero

You get to the car park to find the weather has changed from being just bitter cold too sleet n snow, You startn your engine to warm the engine (one day i will get around to fitting a heater of some sort)

The 3 motors before you all leave in a cloud of tyre smoke and its your turn BUT you know that it wont happen your brakes are just too good and you have no line lock fitted and with your smog engine, 2.75-1 gears and your 28" tall tyres it wont happen off the throttle (well mine doesnt) you lean out the window and say no chance but you have to just give it a blast down that road

Your already in first you feather the throttle due to the flat spot and push that throttle down not all the way but around 3/4

The rev counter raises, you shift between 4500-5000 into second it get a little hairy but you keep in that throttle not letting up 4000 comes up really fast and your contiplating 3rd (around 1/8mile) when you think that this isnt quite the right place to be doing this

You jump off the throttle and it starts to get real hairy, you start thinking that maybe the steering might need a little redesigning so....

The problem that I have is...?

Under accelaration where the body raises the steering pulls to the right and under braking it steers to the left (bump steer).... now i presume this is due to the diaganal arm (cross steer) from the steering arm to the steering box, Can anyone suggest a way to fix this without replacing the steering system i have ?

My webshots has lots of pictures of the build please feel free to have a look

 

If you promise not to make fun of the rust I'll try,as I've got it up in the air gettin' ready for the Texas Thaw.

 

Okay here are some pics. In them you can see the perch and height adjustment holes,weight jacks,hairpins,rack and mounts,biscuit and double-d,and other misc.
This set up with the exception of the changes to the shock mounts has been 9.94 @ 135.
As long as it gets out of the gate clean,it drives as straight as a string,if it don't,it turns into it's "altered ego",Bronco Billy.
As a side note it has 12deg. of caster and 1/16" of toe in.

 

Simple is good - taller springs and ball joint spacers can do the trick:

The black '57 is running 2" ball joint spacers and 'TRW '63 Impala springs. I don't know what the '55 in the vintage pic had in front, but it was obviously coil spring, and obviously raced. The last suspension pic is from a '55 that was featured in Hot Rod a while back. The owner races the crap out of it, stating that he has had at least a dozen engines in it over the years.

I am building a '56 Fairlane gasser with the front suspension set up in a similar way as it will see a lot of street use, as well as strip.

 

I agree with you on a taller spring and ball joint spacers. I don't think that many guys were running solid axles on the front of their cars. I would guess most raised their front end with some sort of spring spacer and the stock front suspension.

That last picture you posted, I remember that 55 chevy from an article in Hot Rod... I have doubts that a NHRA/IHRA/other track inspector would allow that set up on the track. The swiss cheese A arms are a no-no, and I don't think the C type ball joint extension is allowed either.

I'm running a set of machined aluminum ball joint spacers and fresh stock springs. Once the new springs settle a bit I plan to add a small spacer to keep the attitude/altitude the car has now. I can't really comment on how well my set up works because I just got the new engine running a month ago. I'm still chasing bugs in the engine and clutch set up. After a hundred miles or so with the new springs and ball joint spacers the car drives just like it did before, no change in ride quality.

I had tried some aluminum spring spacers (1 inch spring or about 3 inches at the wheel) and the front suspension was at full extension, even with the ball joint spacer. Plus, the front lost all it's plush feel. I've heard the same from guys that go with the 63ish Impala springs = it rides very harshly. I think if you are going to go with a taller spring then you should spend the extra few $$$ and get some custom made coil springs. I called a local spring shop and asked about it, it didn't seem like it was all that expensive. I think a taller spring with the same-as-stock spring rate would give you a stock style ride with increased height.

 

What a beautiful car! Awesome!

I hear a some say that only a few guys ran straight axles but when I go through my vintage Hot Rod mags I see an aweful lot of them. I would think that early on they worked with stock suspensions and later they started using the straight axles to lift the fronts to put the weight on the rear.

Am I crazy? Or did they only publish the more daring guys back then? Ones that ran the straights?



BloodyKnuckles

 

Is anyone familiar with the 1961 Buick 3-link?

How do they react when launched with traction? Do they have a tendency to twist?

What do you think?





BloodyKnuckles