Off the shelf oil with ZDDPlus. Check out www.zddplus.com It is sold here by an Alliance vendor. I have some extra if interested.
I will pass the info about the additive to everyone i know, I wonder if aircraft oil will still contain the zinc? I know the air cooled guys can run it, their engines are basically the same thing as an airplane engine. what about oil designed for bike engines, don't they have oils that contain the zinc?
thank you guys for the warning on the zinc. just another backhanded way to get our cars off of the road. i'm checking into the brad penn oil, anyone know of a mail order distributor?
I have used Lucas oil stabilizer in racing motors that were stockers and put many laps on them until they popped. The lubrication from Lucas products is pretty damn good. Also its made in the USA and Lucas sponsors alot of automotive events, drivers, teams, etc... I mix the stabilizer with regular motor oil and have never used a synthetic oil only. I have heard too many stories about synthetics thinning out and seeping through gaskets.-Weeks
I guess I should have made myself more clear in my message above, I was just posting some good to know info on conventional motor oil and an additive thats available "on the shelf" wherever one may live or be traveling in this fine country. I know there are lots of oils, especially synthetics, with good ZDDP levels still out there. I noticed the bottles of ZDDP in the local speed shop yesterday. About $9.25 for a 4 ounce bottle. I guess I'd prefer to spend $14 on the 16 ounce Lucal Oil ZDDP additive that would be good for at least 5 oil changes.
Anyone notice what happened to synthetic oil prices when gas was $4 a gallon? That's right, it went up too. That's when I stopped using synthetic. I usually don't keep an engine long enough to cash in on the long term benefit.
There is some basis for this understanding and in some situations it does happen where the synthetic leaks more than the fossil. It all comes down to particle size. Good ole fossil oil has a very random and varying particle arrangement and shape, some larger and some smaller. Synthetic has a very orderly and uniform particle sizing and shape. Now imagine a leak in an engine plugged up by some of those larger bits of particulate and you then change to synthetic. It now washes away the larger particles there and due to the fact that ALL the particles in the synthetic are smaller than the pieces blocking the hole, the synthetic oil can now get through that opening and leak out. As you might be able to see, there is the possibility for leaks with synthetic over fossil though the size of the leak is very small and only in a situation where there are MANY places plugged by the larger fossil particles will there be any truly notable leaks. Now all of you stop saying either "Synthetic caused my engine to leak like crazy" or "Synthetic doesn't leak more than fossil." You are both right and both wrong so let's call it a draw. Any of you guys even know what synthetic oil is largely made from anyway? MOOO!
I called engine pro and I can get a case of 12 quarts of the brad penn oil for about 46 bucks plus shipping,thats not bad,not much more then full synthetic, and it has the zinc/phosphorus. It's basically Kendall oil, they own the wells and the old refinery.(Brad penn does) I always like the old Kendall
synthetics are great but don't switch over to them if you've been using dino oil. Synthetics have strong detergents which can loosen crud inside your engine and cause a blockage etc. Keep using what you're using and change it hot and often.
This is always a hot debate with lots of nonsense, lies, deceit, and name calling. For that reason I will only relate a story that sold me on Mobil 1. In the 1980's we raced an Off Road truck in the Score International Series. Won the championship for our class in 1984. The motor was a high strung Ford 2.5 liter. At the Parker 400, we had the radiator mount break and put a hole in the radiator, eventually all the water drained out. I watched the water temp gauge peg at 300 degrees and then go to zero. Oil temp went to 350 and stayed there. We decided to finish the lap (about 75 miles of desert, including the high speed, flat out in 5th Thunder Alley). We finished the lap and decided to park it when we couldn't get the radiator fixed. We figured the motor was toast anyway, but when we pulled it apart, there were no signs of any problems what so ever. Even the ring tension was still good. We put it back together and did 3000 more miles of Desert racing before our regularly scheduled rebuild. Mobil 1 was the oil and I've been sold ever since. many more stories of success with it, out this is the best of the bunch.
yea but whats been taken out of it now? I used to like castrol in the eighties too,but it's just not the same as it used to be. going to try the Brad Penn oil, probably the closest thing you can get to oil back then.
The Mobil 1 racing oil still has a very high content of Zinc and Phosperous. The 15w50 regular Mobil 1 also has very high levels. I still run these oils in all my stuff that I care about.
thank you for the info, i'm passing on this info to the site i belong to with the old imports, we all have flat tappets on our cams so this is a major concern to all of us. This site is always great on these topics and issues that come up. we are in the same boat as the guys who run solid lifters. been the same proven design since the seventies, now the oil companies have thrown a wrench in the works,or the valve train in this case.
Actually it's not the Oil companies that have "thrown a wrench in the works" it's the EPA. In their infinite wisdom, they decided that Zinc and Phosphorus were contaminating the catalytic converters and causing them to be ineffective, maybe even clogging them, so they banned the then current levels of Z & P. The oil companies had to respond. Fortunately, high viscosity oils and Racing oils do not fall under the regulations and therefore can still contain high levels of both. Air Cooled motorcycle oils (think Milwaukee) have always had very high levels of Zinc and Phosphorus also. Now with those bikes having cats it will be interesting to see if the regs change for them as well. Used to be a great way to get high level oils.
I just read an article about this on the pot this morning, "modern" oils that have a seal that they meet the "SM" standard have almost no zinc. An additive is a must to help your engine last.
I have been running Rotella 15w 40 in my Olds rocket. Works great for me, and quit leaking oil everywhere when it sits
Yes, this is very true -- but here is why: I had to do a write up several years ago in college and had a good conversation with a rep from Mobil 1. In short, the molecules in synthetic oils are much finer than that of conventional oil. In other words, the leaks were already there, but conventional oils contain various waxes & fillers and are not as fine. I remember when I was in automotive school and an instructor stating that synthetics attack gaskets and leak -- this is BS. That being said, I am a fan of synthetics; however, I prefer to run Kendall, GT-1, 20w/50.
To throw a wrench into the mix... I'm a big fan of paraffinic based oils. Lubrication Engineers out of Fort Worth TX. I started using it in the late 80's and have been sold ever since. They're actually a paraffinic/synthetic blend. I used it on all my race bikes and cars since then. The shop I worked at had the National Championship Battle of the Twins Moto Guzzi at the time. We ran every type of oil over a season and actually had them sent out for testing. The owner was OCD about that stuff. From the results at the time I was really impressed. Now for break in of an engine I will use an additive. But their oil is awesome, I also use their transmission fluid and gear oils as well. I love the stuff.
Hate to admit it but I'm an amsoil fan. We run it in our squads at work 15,000 miles between oil changes and never a failure... and these cars run 24/7/365 and get run hard every day. I thought they were nuts when they swtiched, but I'm sold now. Not sure how they would be in an older engine, but I don't drive them enough miles to justify it.
That's the thing, I mean I don't think anyone can honestly say that synthetics aren't truly a better oil that offer more protection and likely free up some horsepower. But I usually change my oil on time intervals just for peace of mind and haven't had any oil-related failures, and I honestly can't afford $50 oil changes.
This has been debated endlessly on motorcycle forums. For an air-cooled engine, the primary advantage to syn is that it can withstand a higher temperature before breaking down..........this can be important for air-cooled engines especially when sitting in traffic. Personally I use dino in my RoadGlide since it has an oil cooler and sump temperature never ran past 220 degrees on the the hottest days.......about 100. I change oil every 2500 miles or 6 mos and as long as I don't overheat everything should be fine. In my cars, I change oil about every 3500 mi and I only use dino...........never experienced any engine wearout and as far as I can see into the cam/valve cover, they have looked very clean with no sludge build-up. So........dino for me.
I've always been a Valvoline guy, The only synthetic stuff we ever used was in the rear end. I know one thing about the synthetic oils, they are a lot harder to clean up off the track than conventional oil. I'm sure some synthetics are as good or better than conventional but we have beat the living dog shit out of the Valvoline over the years and it holds up under extreme pressure. JC
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Ive run syn mobil 1 15-50 in my new harley since new but wouldnt have in my older hds and indians. from the oil folks and tests i guess all the old iron parts rubbing togeather dont like it as well as the new alloys. I would stick to your 20-50 dino oil.
Mobil 1 and other "off the shelf" synths usually rob HP. Amsoil, Redline, and Torco were proven to free up add'l power in A, B, A style testing. Oil doesn't break down it gets contaminated. Newer cars monitor exact oil change time based on operating conditions and I notice in 2 of my newer dailys it's more like 6-7K miles vs the old 2500-3000 thinking, and for the record I've NEVER changed oil that often. Waste of $$$. I had 1 engine that failed in daily use, a 79 Z-28. But then again all of those 350-305 engines failed. No matter what ppl will always throw their $$ away with low mile changes. The old oil is cleaned and re-sold. Think about it...It's been in the ground for millions of years! I'm a big fan of synthetics for all of my HP applications. Never used it in a vintage engine. Might try it on the Packard some day. The only word of caution is viscosity. Whatever the engine likes in mineral based oil, you typically need to go up for synths due to the superior flow rates and cold flow abilities. If you run 10W40 now you'd run 10W50, but that's for engines being "converted". New builds break in in mineral base and then switch to synth base as normal. And I agree...no straight answers. Personal preference.
If your hot rod runs hot, you're a fool to run conventional oil. First time you take conventional oil up high it loses so many properties that the resulting engine wear far outweighs any negatives with synthetics. Have been using the stuff in hot-running V8 minicars since the 80s and won't even consider conventional oil on something I care about. Anybody running conventional oil and starting their car in freezing temperatures needs to think real hard about it too............for a wintertime daily, synthetic blends offer most of the cold-flow benefit without as much cost.
If you're a synthetic non-believer, and live in a winter state, I challenge you to the Shifty Shifterton synthetic oil shootout...... Put synthetic in your daily next summer so that it can have 5K or more miles by winter. The good & cold portion of winter. Now that you're familiar with the car's cold start noises, change out the "worn" synthetic for brand new conventional. I kid you not, you'll wish you'd left the "worn out" oil and just changed the filter. The increase in cold start knock/rattle/whine will be amazing. Not just volume, but how long the noises continue Don't let the zinc debate fool anyone into thinking synthetic is for late model roller cam motors only. Engine internals have changed very little in 50 years.
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