No offense to Jerry but to me that rationalization doesn't make a lot of sense. Sam's car clearly has more work done to it that Jerry's and to not slant the posts becuase it was extra work just doesn't ring true to me. I don't think it means that Jerry's chop wasn't done first just that I don't find that as realistic proof that it was.
Since we are laying down all the info we can get on here. Month's ago when I first started trying to figure this out which was about the same time I started talking to Jerry,I asked him why his car had a one piece rear window? He told me that he took the 49 out because he HATED the look of the bars in the rear window.Just thought I would share that since Jerry told me that when I asked about it.
That's cool Jeff. Realistically I don't think we can ever truely know unless someone produces a picture with one of the cars complete and the other one still being worked on but I think the real point to this is that all these guys had HUGE BALLS. I cannot even imagine at 20 something buying a brand new car and never having seen it done before or having done it before cut it up to build a custom. Much respect for having the guts to even do it.
Okay... that where a lot of interesting responses... many more than I had expected. Glad everybody enjoys it so much. I sure hope we will find out a bit more about the history on the Jerry Quesnel Mercury and when it was created compared to the Sam Barris Merc. And hopefully we will be seeing something done with those amazing photos in the future. An historic photo album like that needs to be shared... I have a few more things I heard and noticed about the Hirohata Mercury that I would like to share. Perhaps subjects that have been talked about before.. or not. At least I found them interesting enough to tell here. When I heard Jim McNiel was coming to the Sacramento show I decided I would bring him a special present. Just to thank him for the way he had restored the Hirohata Mercury and how he had shared the restoration of the car with us custom enthusiast all over the world in Rod & Custom Magazine (many thanks to Pat Ganahl for that as well) I presented Jim with a special Kolorized photo and let him decide if he would take the 8x10 or poster format. He went with the poster ofcoars. His car was in it, and one thing he noticed right away was that it was the very early version. The bumper guards where still stock height and the windshield had the chrome trim piece in the middle. (just like the old photo below) Then Jim showed me the windshield how it is now, and was when he bought the car. And looking at my archive most of the photos show the car like this) It is sort of v-butted. But jim says its not rubber material. There is a sort of clear plex rod in between the two pieces of glass, glued in place... Very neat. Never even thought about this and how they did it back then. The sectioned bumper guards can be seen well in this photo. (Edited) Another thing that is very noticeable in this photo is the fact that the grille opening is very symmetrical top and bottom. Makes sense since its the same piece. The bottom portion is created from a second cut down top grille surround flipped upside down, and molded to the splash pan. Another thing jim told me that I had never read anywhere. I always assumed the whole roll in front of the hood was made from sheet metal. Here is another view from the hood lip, but this time from the inside. And this shows the rounded corners inside where the hood fits into. Note the rubber pad to prevent the hood from scratching. Very nice metal work on this modification. Jim also showed me something Barris forgot on this car. Or perhaps they just ran out of time. And once again, I'm really happy Jim restored the car the way he did this and did not decide to "fix" things like this. At the back the team of Sam and Frank who did the most work on the car forgot to mold in the rear gravel pan to the body. In this photo you can clearly se a seam just above the bumper. Its kind of out of place on a car that has all the lines molded in. My guess is they just forgot to do it since they where doing such a rush job to make the deadline of the show. I think the Hirohata Mercury trunk is one of the best early 50's custom car examples. The upholstery was done by Gaylord (most of the rest was done by Carson, but again deadlines make Barris go to both shops to ensure a finished custom) Bob Hirohata made all the tool handles from laminated and sanded/polished plex-i-glass. (the seam can also be seen in the photo below) The gas and oil cans are just the way Barris created them in 1952... The inside of the trunk. Jim assumed the solenoid was fist mounted differently hence the drilled holed in the metal. This was how it looked when Jim got it, so he did not fill them in. And the last thing about the Hirohata.... The Hawaiian crest on the door. I asked Jim about it, and this is what he said. After the car was sold by Bob Hirohata the car was used a lot on the road. And the new owners must have been halted/ticked by the police a couple of time for driving with no mirrors on the car. The car was even used to tow a speed boat, and the new owner installed a side view mirror. Jim thinks that one of the previous owners of the car (Dirty Doug Kinney) removed the mirror, and did not feel like filling in the holes. So he came up with a new name for the car and created this brass crest that would cover up the mirror holes... I understand that Jim wanted to preserve this part of history, but I personally think it should have been left of this version of the car. If it would have been restored to a later version, it would have fit. But this color and this badge where never together in history until the restoration. Still this car was the BEST!!!
Awesome Rik, once more thanks so much! This thread is awesome. Things like this are seldom seen and even less photographed.
Rikster, Thank you so much for all of your hard work. Love all of the History that your laying on us....... DrDave sent me copies of his pictures and they are a lot like the ones that you took. Very close pictures of detail shots of the modifications that were done. This is priceless because this is what we would look at if we were at the show but pictures that you can't see in magazines. I've spent hours looking through them the last couple of days and I'm on cloud nine. Please keep the post coming I'm loving it!! Happy Trails, Mick
Thanks Rikster for adding to an already incredible post. I always look forward to your tremendous insight into all things custom. The pictures and text on the Hirohata Merc are great and just add to a facinating post. This has definitley become one of the most thought provoking posts we have had on customs in a long time. To everyone contibuting to it thanks and keep it going!!
Rik, I was stoked to see your detail shots of the Hirohata, especially inside the hood and trunk since we couldn't see those when the car was on display. So glad you got top clearance! Your comment about the top of the grille shell being made by a cut down and flipped splash pan is interesting. I had always assumed that the bottom of the shell was made by a cut down and flipped UPPER rather than the other way around. Cool info.
hmmm, you got me thinking here Dave.. this is how Jim told it me, or at least how I interperted it. I do not recall the shape of the splash pan on a 51 Merc to well. But looking at the grille of the stock 51 Merc I don thing there would be so much curvature on it. When I asked Jim how the extended hood was made he showed me that it was the same shape as the bottom (splashpan)... But perhaps he wantedd to say both top and bottom are the same and made from the top piece.... Okay I just found this Illustration... and no its not the stock molded in splashpan... So perhaps you are right Dave...
Rik, I just recently learned the grille shell for a 51 is three pieces as compared to the one piece 49/50 shell, . The side parts are the same shape as the sides of a 49/50 shell, but the top section under the hood is a separate piece with the sticking out lip under the hood. Here are a couple of pictures from a HAMB'ers Merc (Ryan Mead, but I don't remember his HAMB name) that is building a similar front end. You can see a 51 upper section laying upside down on the floor in one of the pictures and in the other one, you can see it in place. Looking at the sides, you can see the shape the Hirohata has right at the parking lights on the inside of the shell. I had once thought that the inside of the shell fit right against the parking lights like it does on the outside, but as I have studied the pictures closer over the years, I can see the cut-out the 51 shell has for the stock parking lights....and you can see that shape at the top of the parking light and the bottom of the parking light....as if the lower part of the shell was made from a flipped upper...or so wasmy thinking. Knowing the 51 shell sticks out a bit at the bottom of the hood, I had put that all together and had figured the lip was formed by welding the shell to the hood, cutting it as the bottom of the hood and then adding sheet metal to the top of the lip form the flare. I was in no way trying to disagree with Jim.....he's the guy who has had it all apart and certainly studied it more than any of us will ever get to. I just was commenting on what my thoughts of how it was done were until you shared his comments with us. It is no secret this is my favorite car EVER and I've collected parts to build my own clone for years before I ever got a Merc, so I make every effort to soak up every bit of information I can on the car and absolutely LOVED hearing Jim talk about restoring the car.
You brought up a good point that has often crossed my mind...the Quesnel car had very few body mods compared to Sam's car, and of course Sam would finish his car completely and paint it before "debuting" it as it was an example of what the Barris Kustoms shop turned out and they relied on that for business. I have always felt that Jerry Quesnel's and Sam's Mercs were chopped simultaneously, or very close to each other time-wise. I think Bettancourt's was done after those two had already hit the streets and carshows. I'm not so sure on the whole B pillar story between Quesnel's and Sam's car...if anything, the straight B pillar on Sam's car is an earlier/more '40s look, while the slanted B pillar on Quesnel's would come later and be more experimental as a possible "new" style/trend. But then again, Cliff Rockohn's '47 Merc had a slanted B pillar. Who knows!!
Is that the first motorhome ever made? just kidding...now go home and get your shinebox! sorry...just had to stir the pot for you Jeff...this thread was getting kinda heavy for a minute. Rik, did Jim McNiel tell you that when he restored the Hirohata the front bumperguards were missing, so he had Frank Sonzogni do them again for the restoration? He came over to Jim's house in Orange and did them again, just as he had the first time they were sectioned 2.5" When I first saw the Hirohata in person, I was really surprised to see the rear valance seams not molded in...but after learning the car was built in 3 months start to finish, it would make sense they might have run out of time.
Yes he sure did... forgot about it though. He said Frank remembered exactly where he made the cuts on the guards the first time he did them... makes you wonder where the original pieces are??? Pat Ganahl photo
Rikster...i wonder if that center w/s piece had anything to do with the leaky windshield in Hirohata's first trip in the car across country back in '53????
Rik, I just realized something else amazing about this car (Hirohata) that I had never thought about. The color was way off the wall for that time period. Sure, by the mid-50's, cars and everything else were in pastels, but this color was real daring in 1951.
I am almost positive it was painted in 1952 but regardless,this was a very risky color at that time,they wanted to do something way different. Sorry I know im not Rikster but I had to mention something,I liked your observation.
actually, it wasnt "way off the wall" at that time Hirohata's merc was painted in early 1953,(just before the indy 500 if i am correct)
THAT 40 Merc? There are about 7-8 1940 Mercs in this gathering... Now another thing. I have watched the great thread on the restoration of the Charlie Mars/Tom Black car, but I can't understand why they ruin this wonderful and authentic 1940's kustom by dropping it way too low in the front and totally kill the stance. Raise the front, dammit!
J.B. (QUOTE: I have watched the great thread on the restoration of the Charlie Mars/Tom Black car, but I can't understand why they ruin this wonderful and authentic 1940's kustom by dropping it way too low in the front and totally kill the stance. Raise the front, dammit ------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Ruined it? Don't you think this is an unnecessary statement? I think Rik has done a wonderful job showing the pictures and providing information of the Merc gathering for people who were unable to attend. I attended it and was glad to see all these cars at one gathering. (Even if some of the custom experts didn't think they were 100 % accurate) It was a chance in a lifetime event. By critcizing these cars on websites, the car owners might not be as willing to attend similar events. Thanks again Rik -- You Done Good! TwoChops
I am sorry, but I don't understand your comment. The event was fabulous, Axle and his friends have achieved something never seen before, Rik's photos and comments are top of the line and the great kustom experts like 00Mack has done this thread very interesting. I am also sorry if my "statement" sounded too harsh. But too many nice cars have this problem. I think it is a shame that this great kustom has the wrong stance and therefore unfortunately misses out from the highest level. So in humble admiration of a fantastic car, I change my last sentence to: PLEASE raise the front!
Rikster, thank you very much for me to carry the event, with only your entire history in pictures and details. Abraço amigo!!! Marcelo
Hahahaha! I hear you Kent. Raising the front on this Original SoCal Custom from 40's would be more appealing. Jimmy Summers 1940 Mercury is successful with an even low stance, as well the Valley Custom's '40 Ford vert. But, this Custom is very appealing none the less. Ken
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