New FED SBC Champion Speed Shop

That picture is not sacramento raceway.

 

Now that is a great lookin design!!

 

The Santos Family car was without a doubt the most badass sbc powered racecar of all time. (In my opinion, the most badass TAD of all time.)

Aside from being fiercely competitive, tha Santos' were some of the nicest folks in the class.

We began building an sbc powered TAD in the early 90's (A+ Transmission Specialists out of Houston), by the time we hit the track, NHRA started running the combination out of the class.

In '96 (or '97), when the Santos' went to the Chrysler, George offered to loan us their blower and entire fuel system if we came out to Sonoma (which we did).

Shortly thereafter, we put ours into the 5's (the 2nd true wedge SBC to do so), but the car was too heavy per NHRA rules, and really, no longer competitive. The bottom end was good for about 8 runs, weld up the mainwebs, 5 more runs- junk the block.

So, we built an A Fuel car.

I'll never forget watching SnS flatout ruling the West Coast with that SBC car.

I think its safe to say, those FIVE National Championships w/ the Hemi left alot of people in the class wishing they had left the SBC combination alone.

ALL HAIL THE MOUSE!!!

David Bloching

 

Hey Tim - You know my offer is good for life (and it'll probably be worthless for life, too!).

Davey Jones - Amen...

Adam made three passes on Saturday: 300', 660' and 1,000'.
No numbers on those laps. But there is this: "Smooth, clean runs, with a soft tune up.
Drives very nice. Canopy works well - good visibility. Oil-ins will not be too much of an issue (maybe he does have a windshield wiper!). So far, so good, but it still needs more runs before it's run hard."

We'll see what happens on Sunday...

 

I agree with the it ain't pretty and looks to modern thing,but I'm glad CSS and their SBC are back just the same.
By the way, does anyone know what has become of Sammy Hale?

 

Conder the way you drew the wings it would cause lift not down force

 

Conder the way you drew your wings it would cause lift not down force. when you race you do what ever the rules allow to win it's not follow the leader that makes you a winner.

 

Well, Adam and the Champion Speed Shop crew are all headed back home today - no more testing. The little streamliner will show us what it's made of, next weekend at March Meet.
Until then, the controversy will no doubt continue. But love it or hate it, it's intrigueing to see a smallblock going up against the big bad Hemi's in Top Fuel...
Who are you putting YOUR money on?

 

The McClennan team has always been a force to recon with. They ran an unheard of 5.87 around 1998 when they were still using the standard port arrangement heads. They later somehow got the then pro stock truck heads ( 4 separate exhaust ports) to be legal in nostalgia top fuel. Not sure how they were able to pull those strings but, they did. It's hardly nostalgic using modern, different port arrangement heads for a nostalgia car.
Bob McClennon is a great guy and has unselfishly shared some info with me to help me with my own Pontiac N Top Fueler.
I wish their team the best of luck and also wish them to be safe with their driver and whole team.

As far as them competing head to head with Hemis though, that is not entirely true. They also managed to slip in a 150 pound weight break so they are considerably lighter than the Hemis.
Because of this, their 'small block' is NOT head to head with the Hemis as they have been given an advantage. I doubt that many ( including the track announcer) will admit this or mention it.
Their team is top notch and hardly an underdog.

Best to them and all the Top Fuel teams next weekend. I wish I could have my car there but, am not able to. we need more crew.

My front motor AA/Fueler will be at Speedworld on April 4 and 5

Steve


<DIR>Hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap. Drags, cool car show, parade, special exhibitions, gassers, rails, stockers, customs and much more. coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az -This is Arizonas longest continuest running nostalgic event, our 7th year! www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Also Hosting- Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az more info- www.pontiacheaven.org

</DIR>

 

Some more sluething turned up this number for the weekend: 6.42@224 - whether that's the 660 or the thousand footer, I don't know.

Conder, Adam really digs your vision of a T/F canopy car! Meanwhile, the CSS streamliner managed to sprout a wicked set of scallops over the weekend.

Adam asked me to remind you all that "the Chevy canopy car is a bit of a science experiment". Also, Champion Speed Shop has taken delivery of a new Neil & Parks conventional NTF car that is just waiting for it's Hemi to be installed, "so we should have a little something for everyone this year"...

An occassional HAMB lurker, Adam is an all-around hot rod guy with a long history of street sweepers. Just thought you'd like to know...

 

Applekrate: You're a total badass with all that Pontiac stuff! Yikes! Go get 'em...

 

I sure didn't mean to say that going fast isn't cool. Hat's off to 'em! The style just isn't my cup of tea.

Despite my better reasoning I'm building a heavy old style car. May not be the smartest thing to build but what can I say? I can't help myself.

 

Is this canard surface a little better? I'm not sure if lift would happen with the F-1 troughs under all the bottom surfaces, but then some of the NTF teams have tried that already right?

They say a Champ or F-1 car can drive upside down on the ceiling at 200 m.p.h....I was mimicking some of their air management stuff. Still, an additional canard along side the mid section might help?

I'm not sure what was meant by the "following the rules makes you a winner" comment...Is there a rule that the driver's head has to be nearly 5 feet in the air? Or that the body's have to be giant and square? Is it lame or an insult for someone to build a beautiful (but still safe) drag car these days?

As usual, I'm in awe of most everything out there for one reason or another and my hats off to anyone who actually pulls off an operating race car team. I have a tremendous amount of respect for Adam and the whole Champion operation. Good for them on trying something new with the resources they have.

My offer still stands (as always)...I'll use one of my Ogden Super '65 Smoker chassis to build a serious, current NTF car if anyone's game.

 

I asked Adam this same question today and am waiting for his comment. I'm just a knuckledragger doorslammer guy and missed the whole NTF build mandate, so am clueless as to why they're built this way. Anyone? Beuller?

 

The only thing this car has in common with a front engine digger is the position of the engine. JMHO Mike

 

I'm sure it works well, but I just like the open cars better.

 

I own a current nostalgia Top fuel car. what do you want to know?
are you asking WHY modern cars are built with the driver up high? or?

Steve

<DIR>Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az
more info- www.pontiacheaven.org
Also hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap. Drags, cool car show, parade, special exhibitions, gassers, rails, stockers, customs and much more. coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az -This is Arizonas longest continuest running nostalgic event, our 7th year! www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
</DIR>

 

yes many people dont like the "new" style front engine cars...but id take one any day because the OLD WAY of doing things is gone, and its never gonna be that way again. Both sides of my family raced in Top Fuel from the early 60s till the early 80s...and thats it , its over with!! that was then this is now..no more bitching and moaning about this and that... There is still a way to run low 6s in a front engine Nitro burning dragster...so racers do it!.....Its not 1968, im not sittin in a fueler at Lions trying to see around the blower to cut a good light against the Zookeeper..and it wont ever be like that again.period.

just like the "original","traditional" days, there is a constant striving to PROGRESS and of course, go QUICKER and FASTER..which this new dragster and its pilot are obviously capable of..and if my dad had been Mike Sorokin, driving a front engine fuel car would be the one and only thing i would be doing with my life.. just my Honest Opinion.

T. Hilton

 

Then put the engine in the back and stop telling everyone its nostalgic. A totally modernized 1964 top fuel car built to go "quicker and faster" is a 2008 top fuel car.

 

Sorry we can't make you happy "Four-Thirteen". I've been reading your posts and you seem to be down on just about everything! Just to set things straight, I don't consider these cars "Nostalgia" at all. They are just front engine top fuel dragsters. The motor is in front of you, you run one of two manufacturer's tires, a 671 type blower and the rest is pretty much up to you. They are simply an Evolution of what front engine dragsters started with. The spirit of the 60's drag racing was innovation - Not re-living any moments of the past. I feel there is a lot of that in this class. Don't think they're cool? Sit in one - actually drive it and I'd imagine you wouldn't be so negative anymore!

I'll tell you what, ALL of it (old or new) is cool! It's drag racing, man!

Hope you have happier days!


Adam Sorokin
(Driver of the car you hate so much)

 

"Yeah Steve - I was busy elsewhere (thinking I'd never get this close to a fueler) when the rules evolved into today's "upright driver" and squared off body panels. How'd we get here from there?
Scotty "

To answer your questions- first of all, there are no 'rules' that say a chassis has to be built with the driver high or low. There is also no rule that says the body has to be squared off or less pointed in the front.

These decisions are made by the chassis builders and the men who order them.
A car could be built today with the driver low and a car could be build with more rounded and curved body panels.

Problem is with the big bodies and more squared off front ends is that a vintage, smaller and more curvy body leaves much less room for a big fuel tank, puke tank, dry sump oil tank, etc, etc, etc.
Nostalgia Fuelers of the modern era, even with their restrictions, are much faster than those of yesterday. The have much bigger fuel pumps and much bigger magnetos and must carry more fuel to burn than a small nose , vintage curvy car.
As to why the high driving position, it is a matter of owner preference.

When I had my car built, it was built the way I wanted it. I tried to make it look as vintage as is possible and still not deter safety and competitiveness.
Todays AA/FDs are limited to 12" by 31"` nostalgia tires, 3.90 gear, no trans, only 14% blower overdrive, no trans. However, the rules are quite generous on magnetos and fuel pump size. They make way more power than the cars of yesterday.

I wish the rules would have stayed the same as they did in the 90s but, the class has evolved with its big pumps ad mags, billit heads and blocks, etc. Now, even the 426 can run in the class. That is just the way it is.

I think I answered the questions. if not let me know.

Steve


<DIR>Hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap. Drags, cool car show, parade, special exhibitions, gassers, rails, stockers, customs and much more. coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az -This is Arizonas longest continuest running nostalgic event, our 7th year! www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Also Hosting- Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az more info- www.pontiacheaven.org
</DIR>

 

"Nice job of answering everything except why the drivers are upright - for better vision?
Seems to me that a low, reclining driver would make for better aerodynamics and lower center of gravity (and look cool). I'm sure this all evolved over time, but like I said, I wasn't around for the evolution..."


Yes, I would say the drivers are higher up for visibility, Also remember, most engines are taller than they used to be. many use taller manifolds, taller injector hats, etc.

Next time you have a chance to attend a nostalgia Top Fuel meet, check out my car, Brendan Murrays car and also Jim Cullens white car, the Raison express. Jims car has the driver , Denver Shutz, sitting the lowest of all the cars in the class. Their car has a great profile and look. It is in the top 5 of the most competitivie out there and has run at least in the low 5.80s, maybe even in the 5.70s.

"To the haters, I shared your views when I first saw the NTF cars a few years ago. Couldn't relate to "goldchain" T/F cars anyway, so wasn't an issue in my life. Now I've been hanging around the nostalgia drag scene enough that I've come to know some of the fuel pilots and besides, they're just plain badass cars! Mind blowing engineering and performance - makes 'em look a lot cooler to me now... Now when the "Big Cars" run, I put down the wrench and make my way to the 'stands and enjoy the show. And the education. And the grin stays on my face all weekend. That's the bottom line for me. It's why I'm building my own ultra-mega low-buck version. Today I am a Nitro Zombie....."

I can relate. I have a very nice N T/F car but, a limited budget to operate it.


Steve
<DIR>Hosting- 7th annual Nostalgic Show and Go! and swap. Drags, cool car show, parade, special exhibitions, gassers, rails, stockers, customs and much more. coming Sunday April 5, 2009 to Speedworld. Phoenix, Az -This is Arizonas longest continuest running nostalgic event, our 7th year! www.nostalgicshowandgo.org
Also Hosting- Hosting 11th annual Pontiac Heaven, show, swap, drags, party and all around good time. Saturday April 4, 2009 at Speedworld near Phoenix, Az more info- www.pontiacheaven.org

</DIR>

 

Cole Coonce posted some pics from Bakersfield. There are some pics of the Champion FED there.

http://nitronicresearch.wordpress.com/2009/03/01/test/

I think they did a nice job on the Car myself.

Good luck Adam Have a safe race. Wish I could be there..

 

If anyone on here has run up against the "The 60's are GONE, get over it" attitude it's me. I've been hitting that wall for nearly ten years. I think Applecrate's and Murry's cars are about as neat as current cars get if you prefer the "old days", along with Estrus' 426 (which is an updated early rail.) This thread has been eye opening on a number of levels.

I'll bring you all up to speed on what I've learned, such as it is. If you want to read this cool, if not just go to the next post...

I thought in '99 if I didn't get my hardcore tire smoker deal going I was going to lose out. Every single person I talked to shared my view, from veterans to clueless half-ass interested fans to yes...even a couple current NTF pilots. Tire smoking fuel rails were the most exciting form of drag racing in history.

I talked to a lot of retired veteran drivers. They offered to teach me, as well as educate me in all aspects of mid-sixties fuel racing. They also lobbied me intensely on using my operation to help tell their story. To shine light on the many (but not a lot) of badasses who never made the short list of household names most currently knew.

Most importantly was this point: I landed a LOT (not enough, but a LOT) of money for my deal initially because of it's style. Because of it's interest level with the money people. They were fascinated by the entire spectacle that 2 '60s fuelers created while doing their thing. THE WHOLE THING, you know what I mean. To them it was BEAUTIFUL and get this...they hated current drag racing and, they didn't particularly like cars. If there are marketing folks reading this, you know that when the average "clueless" consumer loves something, it's a BIG deal (it's called tapping into the main$$$$$tream). Reality TV was just starting to spark. Excellent studios were making fantastic documentaries that bordered on blockbuster fantasy films. It was GO.

That was '99. Now, if you've heard of my gig at all you've probably seen it NOT sell for dirt cheap on Ebay. Cacklefest has reached wonderful proportions, shining that much needed light on all our heroes and some of the most beautiful machinery ever built as it re-creates everything (except the actual run.)

Lament all you want. Like the man said..."It's OVER." Now there are a handful of purely technical marvels blasting down the 1/4 mile a full 1 second faster than they ever did (say "ONE mississippi) giving a handful (relative to drag racing's total fan base) immense enjoyment, especially the tuners and drivers! Progress, speed and E.T.s are better so screw everything else, this is RACING. The thing I don't get is, if that's all you're interested in, why not just run a rear engine car?

The fact you guys are running a front engine rail at ALL means you understand the legend of it. The terror. Adam STILL has to look around the BLOWER, and he's practically standing up in the thing. You KNOW.

It gets a little frustrating to hear folks constantly bagging on these new cars and doing nothing about it. It also sucks to hear the LUCKY few who get to build and campaign them talk endlessly about "innovation" and "progress", dismissing the beauty and ritual of '60s fuel racing as FLUFF.

I've always believed there are incredible frontiers to be explored combining all the elements that exist. As it stands right now, you have a small, elite group of F.E.D. teams obsessed with E.T.s slugging it out amongst themselves, while drag racing loses more of it's fan base/market share year after year. Remember, as soon as rails stopped smoking the tires, and beauty and soul took a back seat to speed and money, interest in them waned and Funny cars ruled.

Yeah, I'm too broke to run. I'm just talking. Besides, I have a new theory that's pretty scary for my deal anyway...

Pat Foster told me once, that in the '60s the fuelers actually HOOKED while smoking the tires. They were spinning hard, but the cars were PULLING. By the time they hooked the momentum was awesome and the cars mile per houred like crazy. That was on concrete, with a multi-ply sidewall tire (no growth, no shake) that firmly planted a flat surface of gooey rubber to the track.

Now, I believe the current track prep turns to grease the split second a hard spinning tire strikes on it. You can see it as soon as a new car "blows the tires off"...forward motion practically stops. True, the minute the smoking tire leaves behind that patch of traction compound, it returns to it's sticky state, but I believe while it's actually under a hard spinning tire any kind of "hooking" is nearly impossible. That, combined with the wobbly, high growth current tires that can knock you unconscious when shaking or are only providing 5 or 6 inches of contact patch at speed hardly makes a fast tire smoker seem likely.

I hope I'm wrong. I still have one rail prepped and ready to run and I'd like to see for myself one of these days. Believe this or not, I didn't build my deal to do lazy 1/4 mile burnouts for nostalgia. I built them to explore a completely "NEW" and (thanks to the mighty '60s) exciting kind of racing.

All this being said, I'm in AWE of what the new guys are doing and respect it, I just don't want to be them. I'll admit it's "GONE" (if I have to) after I've actually tried it. - Fuelers Forever.

 

Interesting forum for sure. I have always believed that, if it is good and gets people thinking, it's worth doing.
As a self educated aerodynamics person, I do understand the interest in the way things were done "back in the day". Alot of the aeordynamic stuff we see today in everything from cars to aviation, were figured out during WW2. Germany put an all-out effort into aerodynamic discovery back then, both for their war effort and for the science of it. Politics aside for a moment... Their efforts are still in use today as state-of-the-art science in aerodynamics. So what right?

Keep thinking. Keep pushing for answers. Keep challenging each other for the sake of undestaning. And keep building the hardware. That's what makes drag racing so cool and timeless. The old will always slam into the new and good will come from it.
Glad to be aboard.
Jeffwww.teafordaerospacecompany.com

 

Thanks for jumping in, Liner. Welcome...

I just spent 15 minutes writing my thesis on all of this - then it was lost, because I apparently took too long. Am going to town and sign up for typing classes. Be back in a few weeks...
Scotty

 

Dirty2 -

Proud to say I crew on this car, and its got tear offs. We thought of that right away

 

Looks good in these photos. A little Glass Slipper ish, but that's not why I think it looks good.