Sure, in response to the OP that makes sense, but why did you choose to reply to the two posts in the thread that make the most sense, and say that?
Have him machine two round ports were the original one is. Q: Which new port goes through the water jacket? A: Both of them Q: What happens to the original port? A: ...................................what? Save time & trouble: lay the block on the floor, and drive a fork lift at it very fast. Same result, less work.
Why don't you just put a Pontiac 6 cylinder Overhead cam engine in it? Meets your needs for straight 6 and it already has OHC.
the kid who started this post has only posted 3 times. On the 25th of last year , february 25th and march 25th. I been waiting to hear from him since he was so sure of what he was doing, but he has yet to post a 4th time on the hamb.. I guess we should assume either the motor is still getting worked over or the project is completed. He's a marine, he might be very buzy right now, I think that may be why he left us hanging.
Don't get me wrong, I know you aren't scatter-brained, to the contrary, I see the genesis of adventure here. I'd like to suggest that with your imigination, you should evaluate your current approach. Find the goal you want, the motor you want, and reverse engineer the ideas to that goal. If it's performance you want, you can do better. If it's simpler than that, that you have a need to use that L-6 specifically, but want something out-of-the-ordinary, just because somebody else hasn't tried it and you want to jump in simply for the challenge, then you might be on the right track. Bore? I would go with a moderate oversize, not radical to start. Expect to trash a couple of blocks with this type of zealous undertaking. Stroke? Consider keeping a shorter stroke, possibly even de-stroke, condusive with higher rpms. With that high of Compression ratio you will need a starter with more torque. I would get a few stock cams and contemplate what lift/duration would be in your ballpark and send them in for re-grind. Whether you do that one at a time, or just get 2 or 3 different grinds done for experimental swap-out, that's up to you. I would also prepare myself for the big letdown, but not withstanding the fun along the way, when it's all said and done, success or failure, the fun is in the doing and dreaming, isn't it?? Have fun.
LOL. Hey, when I was 16, I wanted to drop a Jag XK engine (straight 6) into my 1950 Plymouth, with the four speed. I loved the way those Jag motors looked and sounded, and they are torquey, too. Only trouble is that there were not a lot of Jag motors in the Brooklyn junkyards. Actually, there were none. Plenty of 283's, though, so that's what I ended up going with.
Im not sure what happened with that post. The quote was dead on, I think he should just do a clean engine and let it be what it is. I said "I second that". The remark was from something else. Not intended for the guy who posted that.
De-stroking a 230 for more RPM, or "how to go from low power to no power for only a few thousand dollars"
For those who still cherish the mythical "destroking it for more power" concept: the math supporting this does not exist. Why? Not possible, but reducing the stroke to 50% and increasing engine speed to 200% to get the same power at higher speed is the idea. The math is wrong. The stress level of the crank and rods (peak inertial load) is not, not, NOT directly proportionate to the RPM but to the square of the RPM. Doubling the RPM and cutting the stroke by 1/2 increases stress by 2, and everything breaks. If doubling the peak loads is acceptable (using high quality components: Carrillo, Venolia, blah), just speed up the larger engine by 41.4%: same effect, more power, less money.
Yes, your (hypothetical) figures are wrong, I guess taken out of the blue to support your point? A 50% to 200% ratio would be questionable. The real numbers that work are in a more narrow window with the proportion being regressive in nature. Cherish? Mythical? Hmmmmmmmmm. Seems that you aren't aware of the simple horsepower Equation, with rpm being a major component of that mix. That would mean that all of the new design production motors in the 1.3 to 2.8 Liter ranges are all wrong with their comparatively(to earlier designs) short stroke and higher rpm performance curves. Maybe you should inform the industry of their folly.
I might be able to buy into this if the new 1.3 to 2.8 motors were flatheads. But they are twin cam four valve EFI turbocharged motors. A big motor such as that would be more powerful than a small motor. Just like a big flathead makes more power (with some exceptions due to tuning) that a small one. V8-60s didn't take top time at the lakes. 296 inch Mercs did.
I don't mean to sidetrack or hijack this thread, but here http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=238372 for those of you who haven't already seen it, is a real flathead six performance quest, complete with mistakes, drama, letdowns, and real dyno info. Start at about page 5. How much money? You don't want to know. oh- and a destroked 230 is a 218!! A destroked and sleeved down 230 is a 201!! and, here's a (bad) pic of intake ports cutaway. You can clearly see that making that one port into two would require much more than just grinding the hole out bigger.
In the old days {early 60s} we used to put the big flathead Chrysler 6s in them. They are longer and you have to space the radiator forward but they fit. No offence but right now youre talking out your anal orfice. Just the idea that you think this will work tells me that you have no clue what youre doing or talking about. Being a pioneer is Ok if you have the mechnaical skills to back it up like Rich Fox does. My advise would be to keep it simple. A late inline OHV 6 or V8 transplant will be tough enough for you. This isnt meant to offend you but is rather a reality check for you. You sound like you just picked up your first Hot Rod magazine and are about 13. A 300 Ford or 292 Chevy would fly in that car with a good C-4 or turbo 350 trans. The OHC Pontiac 6 is too hard to get parts for. If you go the way you want, good luck, youll need all you can get.
Right on........... I looked at all the options for repower or rebuild when the Flat 6 motor blew in my good lady's 55 Plymouth. First thing is that a 55 Plymouth is not a high dollar/highly collectable car in the first place so you have to look at it a couple of ways. Spend a bunch of money and yes, anything can be made to go fast but you would be better off spending that money on something that will get some value at the end of it all. That is why in the end I decided to go old school with the Plymouth because there are not that many people interested in them for resale and you can easily end up with a car that is very hard to resell. Yes, I know we are hot rodders and cutting up cars is all part of it but I decided to go with the flat six, split exhaust manifolds. home made dual carb set up and bolt on period/original accessories. A Edgy head would be cool and would run way less than trying to fit a slant six head. Dual carb manifods turn up on Ebay from time to time. Keep it simple and you will end up with a cheap cruiser that will be different to the multitude of tri 5 Chevs that seem to be everywhere.
Nice to someones get some straight info to a questioner..... Not everyone is skilled,also most of us eas "dumbasses" in the start.... The trouble when asking.....a lot of replyguys always knows better, at least you´d made a idea, not only follow the others.....Do it your way,if you want, no HotRods have been made if nobody didnt start experimenting....
You read it, that is just what this is, looking at other build threads got me to thinkin, just what have I been doing this whole time? I do not currently have everything that I need but I do know that three pistons are done/cracked/chipped so I am pretty sure a master kit is in order valves are bent as well and will probably use a new cam too. I cannot for the life of me seem to find a master kit for under $1,000.00 impossible??? I also will need a couple of specialty tools. I currently have the torque wrenches and mic. but lack many other tools "need to make a list to know what I need to get" I am sending the block only to be hot tanked line bored and honed possibly bored over. I will complete all work on the engine myself. There will be a lot of small parts/ loose ends to tie up "small misc. parts" that may be obscure or difficult to find. Well, now that thats under control, I got the car from and older fellow out in Landers CA dying from a chronic illness, had too many car projects and not enough time left. He GAVE me the car on the condition that I get her back to tip top shape. A little history on the car, I have taken the gen. to ace alternators in Yucca Valley, CA for an upgrade/rebuild and it came out great. This car was at one time used as a naval weapons station government vehicle so I can only assume that this car has remained in CA for it's entire existence. It needs a LOT of TLC. I have purchased a couple of buckets of the original formula for that model year/ vehicle from finishmasters in Palm Springs before CA changed HAZMAT regs. and they had to change all of their formulas two-stage paint gents this thing is going to snap. The color was originally light blue and will change to oat brown "only color/formula that finishmaster could mix for me on the spot" I have the original antique yellow on black plates and a slew of old DMV receipts/ maintenance stuffs that I xeroxed for the car too. The interior needs to be cleaned and the seats re-upholstered I want to do it in leather/ suede the steering wheel needs to be refurbished and all of the emblems on the car need to be as well. The chrome on the entire car needs to be re-chromed. I would love to have a sponsor/sponsors for this because I am active duty and full time father as well as numerous other things money/time are the biggest issues I am facing right now in that order. I promise that pictures are coming soon.
these pics are a bit old but still a good example of some of the gems that you can find out in the tomb.... i mean desert.
Thanks for all of the insight you guys, I have decided to just rebuild. Good info all of you I really can't thank you enough. On another not the same reason you cannot turn one intake into two is the same reason you cannot turbo this motor it would just over heat the water in the waterblock because of the way it's cast. Now, I have put some serious thought "let me know if anyone can make some custom valves/pushrods" into running an OHV head from a 225 slant six on this block allowing for dual intake and dual exhaust on a single cam timing. you take that make the intake valves a leeeetle bit bigger and use the offy manifold with the fuel injector stumps for the slant six on both sides and add a off the shelf fuel injection kit with a CPS type setup and then you would be making some serious hoses. Also add some headers and stroke her out a little and play with the cam lobes some..... etc. etc. etc. let your imagination run away with you boys. This seems like a fairly straightforward type of concept and would possibly run great if done right "from the engineering side" The hardest part would consist of manufactuing pushrod/valves and the way to seal up the head/custom valve seals to prevent compression losses into the slat six head they bolt right on and the water holes match up and oil could be re route from the pan to go into the head via a pressure fitting. Happy and Safe Holiday, Kevin
Here's how to make your "slant-six to flathead-230 head swap" work. Start by removing the original transmission and bellhousing. Then remove the hood from the car. Next take your engine crane and place a fresh, 'ready to go' slant-six head, roughly in position, about a foot or so above and slightly to the right of the 230 inch flatmotor. Then, after removing the original cylinder head, oil pan, manifolds and all other accessories and bits and pieces from the flatmotor, to strip it down to a shortblock for ease of handling, unbolt it from the frame and remove it from the car by pulling it out via the front , through the rad and grill opening - after removing them first of course! Note - since the normal, *sane* way to remove or install an engine from a car like this is to go up and in or out, through the top of the engine bay, getting the still bulky and heavy shortblock out through the rad and grill opening, all the while with a slant-six cylinder head hanging over your head by the way, may take a lot of finessing and creativity - but then, if you can handle engineering a major cylinder head swap like this, I'm sure getting a shortblock out through the rad and grill opening is nothing you can't manage! (You do have a cutting torch handy- in case some sheet metal gets in the way - and a mig welder or brazing torch to repair or replace any cut out sheet metal afterwords, right?) Next, take a fresh slant-six short block and very carefully finess it into the engine bay, the same way you removed the old 230 shortblock. Once you've got it in place, make up some new motor mounts for it and bolt the shortblock to the frame. Then, lower the slant six head onto the top of the fresh short block, add a new *stock* slant-six head gasket, carefully finess the head into place on top of the shortblock, install a set of *stock* slant-six headbolts and torque them down to spec. Next, add *stock* slant-six pushrods, manifolds, oil pan and all the other accessories and bits and pieces required to make it run and then, other than adapting a slant-six style transmission and bell to the car, you're all done! HEAD SWAP ACCOMPLISHED! Seriously, I don't know where you got your information, but THERE IS SIMPLY NO WAY THAT A SLANT SIX HEAD WILL JUST 'BOLT ON' TO A 230 FLATHEAD-6 BLOCK! Even if you could somehow make it fit by spending THOUSANDS - yes - THOUSANDS of dollars in custom machine work and having custom parts made up, you'd end up with absolutely no more power than an original bone stock slant-six! It's one thing to do something "just to be different". It's another thing altogether to do something just plain stupid, "just to be different"! . If you just want to piss money down the toilet to watch it go away, please send it my way instead and I'll do something useful with it. If it helps, I'll even send you pics! Mart3406 =====================
Just read the above. This guy is either on something, someone who has no idea how to express himself (I don't think so), or, a good doubletalker who is PULLING YOUR CHAIN!!
just get a high compression alum head, bore it out, and put another multi carb intake on it.... or just take the 6 out and put in a OHV v8 and safe yourself the hassle. its just that easy.
----------------------- Yep....a real winner. I guess the recession has made tinfoil hats too expensive for some guys who used to wear them. He should apply for a job as chief engineer at 'Henway Motors Corporation', or some other mythical and non-existent auto manufacturer . He'd fit right in. Mart3406 =====================
This post only appears to be a request for information. This is not true. The OP wishes to have his project validated (viz., unconditional approval, endorsement and acceptance), but only using his ideas. Unfortunately, he has, pardon me, absolutely no grasp of the subject, so any explanation is a waste of time.
I am a hands on kinda guy. Been on lotsa forums now and everytime someone comes up with something new they get the same reaction. It's fine though, it just makes it feel more accomplishing when I do ..... do it. Oh, and here are some more pictures for the non believers, although I must say if I listened to myself ramble a miel-a-minute about this stuff all day long, I would have a tough time believing me too. "the truth is often stranger than fiction" me gettin my weld on with some really bad heinous beads and stackin some really nasty dimes to dial-in the new welder heres wishin to having an oxy acetalyne thorch too handsome devil
Oh, I have a grasp of the subject, just no one willing to hear me out. Regardless, I will rebuild the engine first, and find a new block to "experiment" on but this is the official build thread./restore thread
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