HEMI Tech- Rockers, valves, pushrods, springs

Dodge shafts are 17+", DeSoto 18+", Chrysler 19+" in length...

 

There we go! Fun fact for today! Thanks man!

What's strange about this is that he had them mocked up and they line up, but the differences are really obvious. Maybe a different casting for Chrysler rockers?? Going to go stare at some of the ones we have laying around here now.

Maybe Chrysler shafts with another make of rockers and stands?? Is that possible???

 

Okay, I'm super curious about all this now. I just went and dug through a bunch of the rockers laying around here and here's what I found...

For comparison sake, here's another rocker set that I believe is off an early generation, '51-'53 Chrysler 331, next to the ones I just posted earlier with the dimensions.





These were the only differences that I saw between the two sets.



Here's a measurement at the oil intake...



Now. This got me curious so I checked out my heads (later, 1956 354 passenger car heads). Here's what I found as well as the rockers that I believe are matching rockers to those heads (not 100% positive though).



and the boss on the matching rockers (a third set of rockers)

 

When I reassembled the rockers and installed them on my heads (DeSoto), I had to TAP them down with a brass hammer...repeat TAP, NOT whack...and the stands and heads were clean. They're fit that tight to prevent any movement...

 

Scooter:
I have some late 331's, and 2 sets of 354 trk, and they measure
very close to yours. I had noticed the 2 types of rocker stands
also (feed) , and wondered if one was a later improvement over
the other. The one on the right is easier to clean the oil passage
is all I can see, though it may seep oil past the head bolt ?
Rich

 

TR Waters posted this @ Thehemi.com some time ago. Both styles have the same casting #.

 

Well I went out a measured the overall length of the rocker assemblies and they are 19 5/16" long. And they have a cast # in the stands of 1323358.

Here is a comparision pic...

 

Those are definitely Chrysler.

 

After looking at things again I can see that there really isn't a lot of difference...maybe just the angle of the pic giving the wrong impression?

My problem is still the size of the sleeves and the seat in the heads...with them being almost identical in size I can't see how they are going to fit? Even with "tapping" them with a brass hammer?

At least with yours scooter you have .003+ difference between the two, or am I being peranoid?

 

Could they have been different for Industrial heads and/or adjustable rocker arms?

 

I do NOT think you are being paranoid at all. I agree. It's like trying to put the square peg in the round hole. You shouldn't have to do anything extra to get these to drop on, but in this case you definitely have a situation. The only solution I can see is to pull the little sleeves and step them a few thou', but before getting all crazy, I would sure like to hear WHY this is like this. There HAS to be a logical explanation for this.

Can anyone help this guy out? I would really like to know more why this is the way it is. The numbers don't lie. I couldn't imagine that these were supposed to be an interference fit. Especially that much of an interference fit.

Baffled.

 

I might have an extra set of stands that will fit.

 

It looks like those rockers need re-facing. They have a pretty deep impression from the valve stems.

ALL Chrysler rocker assemblies are the same, '51-'58 when it comes to how they mount onto the heads and that includes the Industrial/Marine versions as well.

Since they're usually all crudded up inside (the shafts) I disassemble EVERY set I get and clean EVERYTHING. I have about twenty sets, mostly disassembled and in drawers, that I use to build up whole assemblies from time to time. I sent a bunch of rockers out to a cam grinder in the Pacific Northwest a few years ago to get the valve stem face re-surfaced but I'll be damned if I can find the receipt with their name on it.

If the locating bushings are dirty or the heads, themselves, are cruddy, you may have trouble getting the rockers to seat.

You should be able to drop the rockers onto a bare set of heads and thump them into the holes with your fist, nothing more.

 

With regards to the diameter of the sleeve (yes they do come out), they should be in the .75 dia range and the head id could be as much as 0.02 larger. As near as I can tell this is not one of the critical tolerance items.
Not sure that I'd get too worked up about the numbers unless you have parts that simply do not fit.....anything beyond a rubber mallet should be investigated...

.

 

Thanks for the info and help guys, I will disassemble the rockers and give them a good cleaning and then see where they are at. They ARE pretty dirty and cruddy but I did scrape a bit before my measurements so after the cleaning I'll try again.

Now for cleaning and reassembly should I mark eveything to go back in the same locations? Also should I oil everything as it goes back together?

 

This is a good thread. Thanks for the info De Soto.

 

THRASHINGCOWS - I always do. It's saved the day, more than once...

 

The two end stanchions have holes in them for cotter pins. The second from the left has the oil feed passage. That leaves only the center and next to the last one that are identical.

I build sets up from various stanchions (that aren't all chewed up from head bolts) and have never worried about whether the stanchions came from the same set.

The rockers, if you know where the pushrods went, should be matched to the pushrods. If you have a bundle of pushrods, keeping the rockers in order is pointless.

Delta Cams in Tacoma, WA. ( http://www.deltacam.com/ ) resurfaced a few sets of rocker arms for me a couple of years ago. (yea, I finally located the shipping box). They have the monkey-motion grinder setup that puts the proper radius on the valve stem surface. When you run a solid lifter (roller) cam like I do, you need to be able to measure valve lash and you can't do that when there's a depression in the rocker arm.

 

If your going to run Hyd lifters and a reground cam, You can use a pushrod checker and get some pushrods made then You wont have to mess with the adjustables. FEDER

 

The single biggest reason for using adjustable pushrods is that the length can be tailored for each of the 16 lifters. In any system where we have massaged, manipulated, repaired, replaced or 'cleaned' things, we cannot expect the original geometry to remain unchanged.
Having proper preload on a hydraulic lifter is very important and although some variation in preload is designed into the system I firmly believe that having them all the same simply enhances operation. Even if it does not help, it certainly is above suspicion.

If you need to rebuild your rocker arm assemblies, and very few original EarlyHemi rockers pass inspection, call my good friend Gary Patrick at RAS, 800-747-ARMS.

.

 

I found these (umbrella style) on a set of 58 trk heads. Is
any one using these for oil control on the intakes, or is
it not needed? Iv'e read different opinions on this, and
wondered what users have found to be effective.
Rich

 

I bought some seals on Epay but they have the steel wire clip around each one. After I bought them, it says to use with single springs? Soooo I am in the same boat. They are made by Perfect circle and I think these fit on the guide. The stock heads had no seals but I dont want smoke. I also dont want to run the guides dry.

Also my inner and outer springs are progressive. They are stacked tighter on one end, . Do the tighter stacks go at the top against the retainer or to the bottom on the head?
I'm at this point right now.

 

Just a bit more info on early hemi rockers. From what I can tell, rocker arms were another part that Chrysler must have put out for bid. If you have enough sets, you can see that arms were produced at different foundries. Aside from the casting number and rocker number, there is usually a foundry number or designation somewhere on each arm.

With that being said, I have no idea if they were all machined at one Chrysler location or not. I would have to guess that they were. I have seen some arms which had both the shaft holes and pushrod cup machined off center of the casting. The holes were in the correct location geometry wise, it was just the way the casting happened to be poured.

My advice, which every hotrodder already knows, is to double check everything before assembly. And CLEAN,CLEAN,CLEAN.

 

Speaking of clean, clean, clean... Great post guys, thanks. I have three pair of rocker assemblies that need R&R'ing. I've removed the cotter pins and have tried disassembling them but they all seem too tight to disassemble. I there a trick to getting these things apart??

Thanks,

Cam

 

I'm posting on a lot of these sub-threads so you'll see me everywhere but I'm dealing with the same motor. On my 55 C300 331, it has adjustable rockers. It appears that the heads have been done (both the heads and block will go in for checking) and the rocker assemblies are clean enough to eat off of so they may have been done to. I don't have any pushrods. So more newbie-to-hemi questions:

I assume I should keep these barring they turn out bad. I assume you run non-adjustable pushrods?

Are these a hydraulic or solid lifter motors when equipped with the adjustable rockers?

I read somewhere that someone had suggested using chromed shafts...or did I read that wrong?

Anything else I should be looking out for a street (and strip once in a while for fun) set-up?

 

Motors with adjustable rockers had solid lifters. They can be used with hydraulic for ease of adjustment though. You do not need adjustable pushrods with adjustable rockers.

Shafts can be rechromed if too badly scared and/or pitted. The rockers would get bushed accordingly, as well. There tollerances must be very tight on these rocker assemblies, but obviously move freely.

Just because they look amazing on the outside doesn't mean they aren't completely plugged inside. Mine were awesome looking, tight, looked great! Pulled the end plugs and they were full of sludge. Don't risk it! A box of plugs is like $8 and if they don't have to be sent out for to be redone then they can be cleaned up quickly. Shafts can be polished with 1200 or 1500 emery if you have enough meat.

 

Just to clarify...chrome means HARD chrome, not the shiny stuff on your velocity stacks...

End plugs are Dorman #555-011.


.

 

Thanks Scooter, that will be my first job to pull those end plugs and have a look. Thanks for the info!

Jay

Where do you order them through?

Thanks for the part number.

Jay

 

NAPA has them...5/8" soft plugs...

 

YES! Thanks Gary! Hard chromed. I should have been more specific.

Yep! Any good auto parts store that carries Dorman products will have them or can get them.