Hot Rods More AV8 wishbone/K member problems, what did I do wrong?

I've been following "How to Build a Traditional Ford Hot Rod" for my build. It says to place the front of your K member 5.75" from the front face of the existing model A crossmember. (That's where mine is, it's just not bolted in tight yet.) The book says to use a 33-34 wishbone which I was about to buy until everybody here, and on Fordbarn said I actually needed the 32 wishbone. I even read the update Mike did where he says to use the 32 and not the 33-34.

So, $600 later I have a really nice 32 wishbone sitting in my chassis that doesn't fit. So what the Hell is going on? Did I do something wrong or did I receive bad info? The way it looks now a shorter 33-34 wishbone would fit perfectly. The back of the axle is about 2.5" give or take a little from the center of the crossmember. I think that's the difference in length between a 32 wishbone and a 33/34.

 

I'm interested in the answer too, 'cause I have the needed parts also, including a 34 wishbone, for a pick up project.
bttt.

 

Has the front crossmember ever been moved?

 

It was removed to get rid of a nasty DC ARC welding booger job from about sixty years ago. Other than that the crossmember pictured is in it's stock locale, just not bolted in from the top.

 

Just move your front crossmember forward to match your axle, a few extra inches of wheel base is a good thing. Better ride, more engine clearance and you don't have to spend any more money.

 

And what if I want to run a hood, lengthen that too? Besides, moving it that far forward starts to get into the downward curve of the framehorns and won't fit.

 

this is how i do it. bolt engine, trans and k member together as one unit. with body installed, find where the unit needs to sit. then build your wishbone from there.

 

I have a perfect 33-34 unsplit wishbone I would love to trade you.

You just say when


Rusty

 

Thanks for the pep talk Kevin, do you think my $500 K member just dropped right in? I don't have a problem hacking up parts but I'd rather buy a two or three hundred dollar 33/34 wishbone and drop it right in instead of hacking up a 32 I just shelled out a lot of dough for.

 

I set the body on the frame, mock up the block and trans case, and determine the k-members location by engine to firewall clearance.

 

could you move the front x member forward (i know by experience at least 1.5"), and since your K member is bolted in temporarily can't you move the K member back to compensate? If you moved it 1" it would be the correct 2.5" you are off? I might be missing something here pretty obvious as to why you can't do that...just thinking 'out loud'.
-ace

 

Here's a little problem, my roadster that this chassis is destined for is already sitting on a chassis. It's a complete, bone stock 30 roadster. My plan was to build this chassis to a roller then simply pop the body off it's chassis and set it on this one. I then planned on selling the stock frame and driveline. Right now I don't have the room to pull the body off for a test fit.

 

I plan on running a hood so moving the crossmember/radiator/grilleshell is not an option.

 

So it looks like there are three basic options with an AV8 on a model A frame:

1. '32 wishbone puts the K-member in the right place to line up with a stock Model A rearend per gashog's AV8 here on the HAMB and an old Floyd Clymer book I looked at recently. Solves converting a spring behind rearend (at least until you break the Model A rear), gives more room at the radiator, requires minor clearancing at the firewall and looks tough to fit the steering.

A side benefit is that there are readily available kits to mount Model A pedals on a V8 gearbox, would keep pedals in the stock location and might be a nice alternative to those $$$ 32 pedals... Would still have to weld a tab and fabricate some linkage, but you have to do that with the 32 pedals, too.

Any other solutions to fitting a steering box with this setup?

2. '33-34 wishbone puts the K-member a few inches closer to the radiator, engine clears the firewall but requires some juggling to make the fan fit. Steering is still tricky but F1 box seems to work well (per Tardel/Bishop book), gotta convert a V8 rear to spring over because the Model A rear is too short.

3. Split a wishbone and put the engine exactly where you want it... Convert a V8 rear to fit. Gotta have the body, frame, radiator, engine & trans in hand if you really want to know what's up.

Seems like there are pros and cons to each approach. I have a B engine / '39 gearbox in my Model A, and a nice 59 AB sitting on a stand in my garage... I am still studying this style of build and would love to hear more about how folks have tackled the challenges.

Will Kimble

 

heres what i did following the same book. the 33-34 will work, kinda, if you keep the engine/kmember fwd as much as possible. it comes up about 1/2-3/4 or so short of the ball fitting the socket correctly. i fudged mine by pulling back on the axle****y. and its been fine for the last 20k . the 32 wont work without shortening/ moving the front xmember fwd or moving the engine too far back to clear firewall. you can splice in a section from a model a wishbone or just forget it like i did. btw 600 for a 32 wishbone is a good deal

also be prepared to remove the rad to work on the distributor! its real****e

 

What about this? Leave the front crossmember in it's stock location. Leave the K member where it is per the instructions in the B/T book. Cut out the section of the K member that houses the ball mount and move that back the required distance and reweld it. Could this work? I do plan on running headers inside the frame and I don't know if this will cause oil pan clearance problems with the 59AB? I also PM's Mike Bishop to see what he has to say about the situation.

 

I just did one of the same on a tudor here in the shop. I ended up taking the slugs, (bridles), out of the '34 bone and just making it fit. The '34 bone is wider at the rear and helps with undercar clearance somewhat. This also allowed me to correct a caster problem the owner was having. This worked great. The owner also found a few other small problems in following the book verbatum. As is mentioned at several locations you need to think things through which is why they don't give dimensions for things like the torque tube lenght.

 

Man this is crazy. Guys have been doing this for almost eighty years using the exact same parts I'm trying to use right now and there's still no consensus on what fits and what doesn't? Plus you can't go by the instructions in a book with "How to Build" in the****le. I just keep telling myself it will all be worth it in the end

 

Sell the unsplit '32 bones. Buy some split '33/'34 bones and move on. You also could save the high dollar K-member to sell. Buy $200 '33 bones. Sell the '32 bones and K-member and be well ahead.

 

i have said this a million times, the beauty of these cars is that everyones approach is a little bit different. if you dont feel like cutting up the 32 wishbone (i dont blame you) look for a 33 34 and fit it to where you need to be. split or unsplit, you are going to have to do it anyway.

 

Welcome to reality Every time I buy something that is supposed to just fit, it doesn't. If I didn't know how to design, fabricate, weld and solve problems . . . there is no way in hell that I could build a custom chassis. There are so many wives tales, repeated stories and just plain*****, that you need to always be prepared to figure it out -- prototype everything before you weld and create your own book of knowledge. It was that way when I was 15 . . . and it is still the same way 35 years later! Guess that is why lots of folks just "buy a car" - instead of build one. But hell . . . that isn't any fun now is it! It is all about problem solving my friend . . . . regardless of who you buy your parts from and what books/articles you read. Even the top name suppliers only get some of it right . . . it is part of the journey to resolve the issues and move forward. Once piece of advice is to document the dimensions, parts you've used and what works -- you'll be glad you have it later on.

Best of luck . . . you'll figure it out soon enough . . .

Dale

 

Would it work to****emble the axle ,spring and wishbone, Then install the axle****embly in the stock front crossmember & use the wishbone ball to locate the 32 K-member. It won't be the same measurement as in the book but moveing it back 1 inch shouldn't make that much difference. Just my thoughts for what it's worth.

 

except the 32 K member is the transmission support, this pull the motor back and cause firewall interference.

 

I'm in the exact same position as you and also want a stock hood. I have tried both a 33/34 and 32 wishbone and as recommended by a Hamber who's done it I intend to lengthen the 33/34 wishbone to fit as opposed to cutting up the 32 wishbone or moving the engine back. I put my K member at 5-3/4 also as the book suggests then pushed it about another 1/8 or so forward just so as my 47 p.u. doglegged oil breather would fit like it was born there. I think in my case the 33/34 wishbone needs to be about 1-3/4ish longer. I did not want to cut either my firewall or the 32 wishbone or have the pedals back in the cab as far as they would be using the stock 32 wishbone although this would have saved time.

 

I would measure where the center crossmember has to be so that the engine
fits not follow measurments by the book.

 

looks like all those folks who told you to buy a 32 wishbone were wrong, instead of cutting up a good wishbone buy a 33/34 wishbone, sell the 32 wishbone and move on.