is a 351c too far off topic?

I'm about fed up with the Y block in the Edsel, I've tried to no avail to fix it, get it running right and I'm very close to pitching it.

I can pick up a good running 351c and 4 speed (not sure if its a c4 or c6) locally for pretty cheap.

I love the idea of a 4 speed and the idea of NOT leaving clouds of smoke, not to mention the 351 is bigger, lighter, more powerful, parts are easier/cheaper to find ect...

but the one thing that keeps me from jumping on it is that i really like the idea of keeping the Edsel period correct...

I don't know, what do you think? is a Cleveland forgivable or is it a sin at the altar of the hamb?

 

Hey how many of the guys and gals on this board run SBC on thier cars? If you can get it on the cheap and keeps you on the road who cares. You also have a hood on your car I assume, so who will ever see it?

 

FWIW, a c4 or c6 will be a 3 speed tranny... 4 counting reverse...

Since you are considering pitching the MEL, might want to consider a Windsor instead of aCleveland if you are looking for a cheaper easier engine.

Ther is a MUCH larger aftermarket for the W, and the W was producer into the 90s where the C died in the 70s... this means cheaper parts with greater availability.

The stock C heads are better than the stock W heads, but aftermarket W heads way outshine stock Cs for not a lot of $.

 

Well...its o.k., but its no Diesel Chevette...
Actually, it really depends on what "period" your shooting for, and how closely you wish to adhere to the trends from it.
Or, if you even give a damn...
I ran one in a Fairlane...it was already there when I bought it, I think it was an old M/P car...it ran o.k....it looked 70's...
I think a period correct Edsel would not have even been built...its no secret it wasn't the most well-recieved car...probably not too many were hot-rodded...
Yeah...the c-4 and c-6 are 3 spd. autos...

 

Run a crossover exhaust, who would know?, lol.

 

Or on second thought how about a 351 or 400 M....

They are a dime a dozen because they are kind of a "smogger" small block with a big block bell housing that no one wants...

They use Cleveland smogger heads, but might the bell bolt up to your existing bell... Does the M use the FE bell?,,, I think so.. Does the MEL use the FE Bell?

I have seen some of these in mag builds as of late, there is the potential for good power there.

 

Ah. I know my gm autos better than my fords. Still 3 speed is better than the 2 I have now. So the point still stands

I don't know what era i'm really going for, kinda 50s kustom I guess, though the body isn't quite right to be fit that bill 100 percent, low'n slow, skirts, metal flake top and mild scallops/ semi gloss paint.

 

The 351C can produce gobs of power and are good street engines. Bolt it in there, if you have it, 'cause most of the folks looking at it won't know what the hell it is anyhow. But rest assured, some asswipe will ask you why you didn't put a 350 chevy in it.
As far as the popularity of the Edsel goes, it seems the marque got the last laugh. There is now, a lot of interest in them worldwide, with clubs and other organizations dedicated to the preservation and restoration of them. The Edsel was not a bad car, it was just introduced at the wrong time.

 

The 351C should have the 351W bellhousing, an M block will have a 460 pattern except for a small number that recieved the 351W pattern. Actually an FE is more original to the car and alot more common. A Y-block is still a good engine, is yours dying? John Mummert has some speed parts to get them running pretty good. Is it a Y block or a MEL? They are two completely different engines. A MEL is a big engine 410 ci called an E-475 and only came in the '58 Corsair/Citation. There are also two different Y blocks, one is the Ford 272-292-312, the other is the Lincoln 317/368. Some Mercury's got the 368 Turnpike Cruiser, but I think the Edsel just either got a 292, 410 MEL (E-475) or an FE (which is a bigger Y block too, confused? the most common being the 361 ci E-400) . If you could post a picture of your engine it might be easier. A 292 has the intake ports stacked up and down, a Lincoln Merc has them side by side like a Chevy, and an FE has part of the intake under the valve covers with the intake ports spread out evenly. A 390 C/6 would be about as simple as it gets as far as a swap because they came with FEs. Your 2 speed may actually be a three speed. A Fordomatic only grabs low if you floor it from a dead stop, or you put it there manually. An old trick to manually shift them was to start out in manual low, wind it up, shift to drive, and pull it back down to low and it will shift to 2nd , or the the gear it normally chugs away in, go back to drive and it will shift to high.

Just a couple thoughts.

 

351C has the same bellhousing pattern as the Windsor sbf engines from '66 up. The 351M and 400M engines have the same bellhousing pattern as the 385 series bbf engines (429 and 460 + 370 truck engine). None are the same as the FE.

 

As far as I know the only engine that shares a bell housing with the y is the flatty

The 351c and trans would rim me $350

 

Yep, the FE C-6 combo is a great bolt in for his Edsel.

 

as long as it'snot a foreign motor who's gonna care?

 

I tried to rering my y after I found a dead cylinder. Now I got tons of blow by and smoking issues. I'm just fed up with it.

 

351c>350

 

Sounds like a good deal 2v heads or not.

 

clevelands are killer motors.. dont need very much to get good hp out of them.. They deffinately arent as cheap as a 302/351w..but it all depends what kind of performance your looking for..I had one I stuck in a ot 68 mustang fastback.. wasnt anything radical.. 9:5 compression.. crower second stage cam.. performer intake and a 650 carb. .2 v heads.. that car would scream and do 12s in the quarter all day..though it did like to run hot.. oh and I got about 11 miles per gallon..for a daily driver, I would go with the 302 or a 351 windsor.. but for performance I deff wouldnt over look the cleveland.. for what its worth.. the FE would be killer in that car to.. 390 are good motors and hard to kill.. and are a bit more period then a cleveland.. but they arnt cheap either.. all depends on how your wallet is.. good luck

 

I had a 351C 2V and they are pretty good. They have open chambers, no quench, ususally about 8.5:1-9:1, mild cam, and a retarded timing set like the other smoggers of the era. The cars they came in were usually loaded down with smog equipment and accesories and had very retarded ignition timing, so they ran hot. When you go look at it, if the exhaust manifolds are pink, might want to pull the heads and look foir cracks. If the manifolds appear cracked, pass. Its trouble. If it is on the ground, rig it up and run it. They liked to smoke a little on start up, the guide seals leak.

Mine was a '70, and it was a good engine in a GT Ranchero. My friend down the road had a 4V 351C 70 1/2 Falcon R engine in the vin (like a very plain 2dr sedan Torino/Fairlane) though with the factory solid cam and factory 780 Holley. That was an under rated muscular car. We got the Falcon at an auction, and it ran like total shit. I pulled the heads, it actually had popups in it, and put new gaskets in had a buddy of mine do a good "competition" valve job and I also realized it was a solid cam and someoine had zero lashed it, the vavles (huge mothers) were hanging open and they had the firing order wired like a 302. When I got done with it, lashed, timed, and rewired it was a real bruiser. Interior like a taxi cab, black sedan with dog dishes, column shift C-6, and the motormotor that wanted nothing but pink premium. Had a bad ass exhaust note too, it was a "don't fuck with me" sound. One of the neatest factory combinations I ever laid hands on. It was just a little soft out of the hole I could get him off the line but in 50 feet he was gone and I mean gone. Blew by me like I had shut mine off I wish I had that car, you could get them with a 429 SCJ too.

 

Maybe check out Doc Fromader's Y Block build on Webrodder.

 

clevelands kick ass, thats why nascar uses the design

 

it was built for racing nascar. the 429 was just a big cleveland. Had canted valves like the chevy big block, and bigger ports [too big for street] If you build one it would be killer engine. and due to short run they arent seen a lot but still some out there.

 

I have not used one of these engines, but I am about to. I picked up a 70-1 4bbl cleveland motor that is basically a long block, in a trade.

I plan on using it to replace the 302 in my truck that shit itself.

The bottom end and heads have been rebuilt, but I do not know what cam is in it. If I cannot find out via a cam #, what would you guys suggest as a good cam for it? I hear the 4V heads are shit for the street? True?

I want something that will be streetable, freeway able, and also give a good run for the money on the track.

Head, cam, intake, other trick suggestions welcome.

Sorry to hijack the post but seems the place to ask instead of making a new one.

 

It's been thrashed out a lot and 2vV is better on the street. Apart from anything else, it's been proven over and over here in Cleveland land (Australia). Theye are still the most common Ford V8 here as we made 'em into the mid 80's.

 

If you have the room save the y block. that way if you sell the Edsel the new owner will have the original engine.

 

I've run & like both 2V & 4V Cs. The Comp ratio can run from 9.5 to 11.7 on 70-1s depending on heads & pistons you have. Establish comp ratio & match the cam to it.

 

I would normally say, keep the y-block running or at least get another one, but the 351C is a good engine, it has torque, I love them.
$350 is a great price. If it has a FMX trans, put a shift kit in it, and hold on, your Edsel will suddenly wake up.

 

I also am a Y block guy and really like them . I don't know what is wrong with your's but you can get any part for the Y block very easily . A SBF will about fall in for a swap . The FE will fit well also without much trouble . As for the C motor , great engine but I would get a 351W and put the C heads on . That was done many time . Now as for the 351m 400 , you don't want that POS ! I worked for Ford back in the 70's and rebuilt many of those engines due to the block cracking in the valley above the cam plus they were dogs !
It really depends what you are going to do with the car . If you want a cruiser , the I would rebuild the MEL or drop in a FE 390 . Speed parts are easy to get for the Yblock & you can even get stroker kits for them . The FE 390 you can get anything for that also . Which Y block do you have ? 292 or 312 ? I would guess the 292 .
If you want anymore information just PM me or send email to my home addy , retrojim1@comcast.net .

 

All the more reason to do it in my book...

I haven't looked at this forum for a while between buying a house and planning a wedding the edsel has taken a back seat.

However I have decided that I'm going to get a 360 or 390 and dress it up as an edsel 361 with the E400 valve covers and early FE intake. It will look period while also looking like one of the only edsel stamped engines.

Besides it seems to be a real simple swap.

 

No emission equipment on a 70' 351C in a Cougar....keep the 2 BBL heads... they flow better....change the intake to a 4 BBl and add a new 4 BBL carb

 

I agree, actually...
Different is good, in many cases. Hell, I build stuff that NOBODY gets around here...it's Chevelle land, over 'ere in Jersey.
And, honestly, the day that the local race track and car shows are FILLED completely with traditional hot rods and customs, I imagine i shall build a Camaro....I just like to be the counterpoint.
I get bored in a world of uniformity.