Pontiac an Orphan

they always looked like they got in an accident between two semi's. if it's already that short, what happens if you get crunched up in a wreck? i like a little bit of metal in front of me and behind me.

 

sign me up.

 

Fiat roadrunner that is

 

uh cancel that order, did any fiats actually run? for more then a couple of days?

 

Fix It Again Tony

 

And to bring this crazy thread, that has somehow defied the laws of the HAMB, full circle and put it back on topic.....


I'm guessing these fiats run pretty well.

 

only because of the powerplants from one of the big three

 

...no matter what I do, this thing still stinks. I'd rather drive a bunny with a pancake on his head

 

That Aztec is starting to look OK..but Ok like a 25-30 year old Rover 3500..

Which of course didn't sell well here either..

 

Pontiac got "Oldsmobiled", sucks ass.

 

Rover 3500

 

Yeah, every import on our used lot has the same problem. You need to drive them periodically. We have a designated person to do that.

 

General Motors pays more taxes; employs more workers; has more domestic plants; supports more families, retirees, and their dependents; and has a higher overall domestic parts-content than the foreign competition--hands down. American quality is on the rise. Efficiency has increased. GM kept America rolling by donating millions of dollars in cash and vehicles in the aftermath of September 11, 2001. Where was the foreign competition in America's time of need? They were busy reeling in record profits and sending them home to reward foreign owners at the expense of an American company that built the foundation of prosperity that America as a whole enjoys.


The Big Three typically invest $10 billion in domestic plants and equipment every year, and bought $156 billion in parts and services from domestic suppliers last year.

GM contributes to the pockets of their assembly workers to the tune of $8.7 billion a year and either directly or indirectly supports the employment of 900,000 Americans.


The Georgetown, Kentucky factory, which assembles the Toyota Camry, was built with Japanese steel by a Japanese steel company. Toyota was given 1,500 acres of free land. To attract this Japanese company to America, we even established a "special trade zone" so they could import parts duty-free from Japan. Financing was handled by Mitsui Bank of Japan. Total federal, state, and local tax incentives (read giveaways) reached $100 million--courtesy of your tax dollars and mine. Not to mention that all these tax dollars were spent to create only 2000 jobs. Good tradeoff.....huh??

I could go on. The bottom line is, what's good for the American auto industry, is good for America

 

Very well said!!! we should all be sticking up for one another instead of bashing.

 

Now that's funny... I don't care who you are!

 

Can you please tell them to stop with the Mexican factories then? And hey send Ford that memo as well...

Heard it all before, but this shit is way off topic and should be nuked from the board....

 

You win, stupidist comment I have ever seen here on the HAMB.

You are blaming the consumer? And you are saying Toyota doesn't have any good looking cars.

Good luck breathing while your head is in the sand.

The facts are (3) things have ruined the US car companies:
#1 ugly designs,
#2 piss poor quality,
#3 unions contracts.

The "BIG" 3 haven't made a car that is worth buying since the early 70's. They are paying the price for that. And that sure as hell isn't the damn consumers fault.

 

I got an 03 pontiac Grand AM with a 2.2 ecotec grand am that i bought new. I'm near pay off and just broke 100,000. I love the car, other than a fuel pump (electric fuel pumps are like light bulbs you never know when its going to go till it goes) i have not had to replace anything. as a rookie mechanic with detailing experience, I've done all the maintainance on the car as i was supposed to and the car looks and drives GREAT. at this point i would not suprized if i get another 100K out of it.

my fiancee and i are looking at buying her a saturn astra next year with a 1.8 ecotec and a 5 speed.

 

you do realize you're comparing 2 TRUCKS to a car?

maybe that's what the problem is we no longer realize that a truck is purpose built. back in the day who cared if the f-100 had a rattle in the front end, it still pulled that loaded trailer into town.

hell GMC has been trying to make their 1 ton trucks ride like caddies (and almost have) have you HEARD a duramax? gobs of power, quiet as can be and oh yeah, leather is an option...

 

good point, they sure are building a lot of cars outside of the US employing non US workers, if the government wants to do something useful, forget the bailout,change the dam laws to make them want to build those cars here. someone is buying them, so why are they being built over the border? they need incentives to make them want them to build the cars in the US,like the rolling back of BS laws.

 

And all this worked out sooooo well didn't it? Maybe they should have been a little more self interested than they were. I want you guys to understand, I am huge pro american, I was really honestly depressed when I read this today.

BUT......

A business is in business for what single reason??

To make money....

So...if your giving away billions, paying wages from 30-50 years ago to retirees, updating billions in equipment,

AND.......


Your losing money and getting in deeper and deeper shit shouldn't it be time to take a good look at what you are doing?

Sorry autoworkers, but retirement is one of the biggest leeches of ALL the american auto makers. PERIOD. You don't see toyota offering you wages for the rest of your life do you? ITS NOT PROFITABLE!! Add in everything else they have done and it spells disaster. I know it irks the UAW that the foreign auto makers aren't offiering pension plans, it never ever should have been. Matching contributions towards your retirement are they way it should have been done from day one. When you retire, your employers responsibility ends with your trip out the door, as it should be.

I could go on and on, but the people who are screaming the loudest are the people who have something to loose in this deal, companies are supposed to make money, that is the point of a business. PERIOD. THATS IT IN ITS SIMPLIST FORM. If your giving away your money, your not a good company.

By the way,
Before you light me up, at my house I have a 2001 FORD Excursion,
69 CHEVROLET el Camino, 46 CHEVROLET truck, 41 CHEVROLET coupe, 84 CHEVROLET camaro, 71 DODGE Challenger, and one little 92 nissan that was practically free...daily beater.

I DO buy american, my last 10 newer vehicles have all been domestic products (Oh, thats right they were all built in canada and mexico) so take this for what it is, a rant on poor management practices......if your not making money you shouldn't be in business.

Sorry auto workers, but 30 or 40 bucks an hour to put rivets in, lifetime healthcare, lifetime paychecks? come on....none of that should have ever flown and was strong armed into being....you come to my state and your making 8 or 9 bucks an hour to do that same task and your retirement will be a matching contribution 401K plan. I'm not blaming you guys for wanting it, but I AM blaming the big three for letting it happen.

 

well said, the only people in this country who should get lifetime retirement benifits are those who served our country and paid for it with their health, or in the case of left behind familys,their lives. they actually earned it. that goes for cops,firefighter,etc too,. if you made that kind of sacrifice for me, you deserve it. ok back on topic.

 

Check your facts. The "trans-plants" are mostly staffed by $10 per hour temps. The Toyota truck plant is 85% temp.

 

Who decides which designs to run? Who decides where to cut corners? Who decided to create a work environment in which workers felt the need (and STILL feel the need) for protection from rash decisions?

I'm not going to say that the Unions are faultless, but they contributed far less to this mess than the MANAGEMENT! Management put these companies to ground, management drove numbers to justify rash decisions, like moving production and parts to third world countries.

How about a #4: Salaries and bonuses for management executives that couldn't figure their way out of a paper bag.

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I can second that!

 

Yeah I think yall should just keep it to yourself and quit crying about it every time someone mentions a late model car or truck.

 

I am, UGLY UGLY UGLY... if you want a new car it's different degrees of ugly.

 

Being the owner of two orphans, Oldsmobile and a Plymouth, I can feel your pain. But I have adapted a proud stance in that it's a great feeling that my two orphans are alive and kicking and not sitting in a boneyard somewhere waiting to be crushed.

 

The problem is your sitting in front of your computer and not going to Detroit and sorting things out. You must have inside information on what product line was profitable and what wasn't to make the statement you just did. Have any balance sheets to back up your claim? I find your posts interesting in the fact that whatever the subject on this board you have all the answers. It must be nice to be in that position. I know if I was I'd be the richest MFer on the planet not sitting in on some message board watching my post count scroll up like a pinwheel.

Frank