Projects Track Roadster 16 yrs in the making

Damn nice work!

 

The only place to take a new roadster is the Los Angles roadster Show in june, but if that is a copper brake line inside your front drum it not going to work............................

 

Nice project. Hope to see it on the streets of KC.

 

Man, I like your mindset.... Your decisions, that I see, are spot on. Tasteful and wicked.

 

The Old School HAMBer, Tman, in the Black Hills makes a good point and it's food for thought.

In that spirit, here are three more build-up photos:

PHOTO 7

The first image shows the Halibrand center section, Ford axle bells, the pads for articulation with the rear torsion bar arms (yellow arrow on left) and the fixture for the Panhard bar (yellow arrow on right). The axle housing are body color and the magnesium center section is painted with tinted clear coats to allow the underlying metal to show through. The magnesium was glass bead blasted to a satin finish prior to painting.

PHOTO 8

The second image shows the entire frame after power coating the same color as the body paint. The center arrow points out the Panhard bar, which “should” have reached across to the other side of the rear axle, but for several reasons does not, one of the many compromises made. Two arrows point to the torsion bar arms, which run longitudinally, while the torsion bars themselves run transversely just at the real of the chassis. The torsion bars are not visible, but are located just below the rearmost cross member. Note the fourth arrow, which points to the outboard end of the driver’s side torsion bar arm. Thus the front torsion bars are situated longitudinally, while the rear bars are located transversely.

The ladder bars are obvious. The paired front locating bars are visible. The inboard pair attaches near the center of the front tube axle and reach rearward and outward. The outboard pair attaches to perches near the kingpin and reach rearward and inboard, passing over the frame rail toward the firewall area. The front shock tower is evident; this fixture also doubles as a headlight stand. The passenger side front brake drum is mounted. Only the ladder bars are off-the-shelf retail pieces.

PHOTO 9

The image shows the rear of the D500 engine block and the fabricated valley plate. Above the valley plate, the center arrow at the top points to the “fuel block”, which, as explained earlier, is, in fact, a vacuum plenum. Below the valley plate one can see the Bosch electronic injectors and the bosses for the fuel rail. To the right is an arrow denoting a heater pipe (yeah, I’m a weenie, I don’t like to be cold). The arrow toward the bottom points out the distributor mounting pad and drive hole. The Hilborn throttle bodies and the valley plate are painted the same clear coat as the Halibrand differential housing.

 

I agree, but I definitely don't want to wait until next year to debut my roadster...so ???

The hydraulic tubing in question is not copper it is a European OEM tubing that is a nickel-copper alloy, it is available for purchase in the US. The fabricator/craftsman, Jack Presse, found the tubing and we both liked the bronze color compared to stainless steel.

 

I LOVE the fully torsion bar suspended chassis! Sexy.

 

OK, point taken. What do you suggest? I have seen the Golden sub at the Miller Meet in Milwaukee, but it was years ago. The #122 car just won at Amelia Island...right? I did not get to see it, what kind of clamps did they use? the old spring type?

By the way, good eye. There are also a bunch of fasteners that will be replaced in the final version.

Charlie

 

Very cool. Thanks

 

A bit more regarding the hydraulic (brake) lines. Go to:

http://www.fedhillusa.com/

this is nice tubing to work with.

 

OK, here we go, with three suspension shots.

PHOTO 10

A detailed view of the rear layout. The arrow at the rear of the frame shows one of the two rear torsion bars; note the long lever arm (white arrow) that reaches forward toward stops affixed to the upper surface of the axle housing (see Fig. 8). The other torsion bar is largely hidden, but its passenger side end (left arrow) can be seen where the lever arm grips its “free” splined end. On the driver side frame rail one can see a notch the fabricator/craftsman, Jack Presse, cut into the inner face (uppermost arrow); the notch allows free up and down motion of the torsion bar arm. To insure rigidity the, opposite, outer face of the frame rail is reinforced and gusseted (red arrow).

The upper shock fixtures are visible, as are the ladder bars, both of which are mounted in a conventional manner.

The key design goal of the rear suspension, just like the front, was to maximize a clean uncluttered look. A person would have to lie on the ground, scoot under the car and look up toward the trunk floor to see the suspension elements. This layout was inspired by the 50s Indy roadsters that used rear torsion bars, which were sometimes crossed slightly, i.e., the bars were not parallel or perpendicular to the front/rear axles.

PHOTO 11

A detailed view of the front layout. The locating arms are true parallel bars in the horizontal plane. The angled geometry helps locate the front tube axle. To allow for a lower stance the upper arm lies above the frame rail. This view shows the uncluttered layout of the front suspension. Even in this “naked” view it very difficult to see any evidence of the torsion bars or their lever arm…test: are you able to detect a little bit of the driver side torsion bar arm in the photo?

Jack built an important safety feature in the front — note the U-shaped arms that hook over the tube axle (double arrow). In the event of a suspension failure the frame can only drop until the “hooks” hit the axle, thereby preventing the catastrophic collapse. For a side view see the fourth photo in this series, and the next Figure (12).

Note how Jack designed the frame support structures to resist loads exerted on the upper parallel bar (arrows). The 32 frame rails were pinched to conform to the 29 roadster sheet metal.

PHOTO 12

The front suspension viewed from the driver side, rear. The passenger side torsion bar tube is readily apparent. At the end of the tube one can see the splined end of the torsion bar itself (right arrow). An adjuster will attach to the spline, which will permit setting the ride height and torsion bar pre-load.

Note that the shock towers also serve as mounting points for the headlight buckets (left arrow). A better view of the safety “hooks” arching over the tube axle (red arrow). This view also shows how Jack lined up the frame substructure to resist compression/tension loads from the parallel bars.

Let me know what you guys think.

Trakrodstr

 

In trying to describe my initial reaction to your build, many words filled my head, but I will just use the very first word that came to mind.

WOW!




Make sure once you start driving the car that you park on a bed of absorbent material to catch all the drool that will be flowing from the collective mouths of the gawking crowds of hooligans that will undoubtedly surround it.

 

When this thing shows up to a show you are in, ask for your registration money back if you are there to win. This build is the tits.

 

OK I am going to show how to ask a dumb question.

Are you going to have enough rear weight transfer for
it to load the torsion bar in a side to side roll?

 

LB+1,

Sounds like a smart question to me (are you an engineer?).

I’m not an engineer, so the short answer is I don’t really know.

If I understand your question, I am assume that you mean...during acceleration if the car is also rotating around its roll axis, will the torsion bars “keep up” with the weight transfer…correct?

My understanding is that an advantage of a torsion bar is that it is easy to adjust the pre-load at each corner of the suspension (right height also changes). The torsion bars we use are sprint car parts and are available in stepped or indexed sizes so the mechanics can dial in the spring rates for a particular track. We can swap out torsion bars and adjust the pre-load to a wide variety of conditions. So yes I think that with some trial and error we can select conditions that, under anything but the most abnormal vehicle dynamics, will allow the rear suspension to stay planted; thus, the unsprung weight load will not be lower that the spring rate, i.e., the rear of the roadster will not be “on top” of its springs (torsion bars).

Having said that, my additional understanding is that street driven hot rods typically do not use much suspension travel, so most of the time the tires are probably doing much of the suspension work.

I don’t know if I understood or answered your question, but, if not, I will ask Jack Presse. He’s the guy who constructed the suspension and has been building hot rods for 50 years.

 

Incredible. Could be a AMBR contender, you know?

 

Engineer? - No Sir. I just think to much.

You answered my question and my next one also.
Tires - I hope you are going to be able to use the
1950's look.

 

I love this car, and the color.

 

Me too, keep the updates coming.....did I say I love torsion bar suspended hot rods?

 

Hello Folks,

This segment will focus on the engine accessories and cooling system features.

PHOTO 13

Here is the custom radiator constructed by Ron Davis Radiators. The relatively small nose of the track roadster meant a small frontal area and little room for a radiator. Based on past success with other track roadster projects, Jack Presse prepared a mock-up of the radiator from scrap wood and sent it to the Davis company. Mopar Hemis are not particularly susceptible to overheating due to excellent water circulation surrounding the combustion chamber. Further, the Dodge D500 is much less massive than the Chrysler family of Hemis; nevertheless we assumed that the cooling system would have to be carefully designed to cope with idling in traffic on hot days. As the image shows the radiator came out fantastic, too bad it’s going to be hidden from view.

PHOTO 14

Here you see the radiator bracket, which shows the tilt angle needed to fit the radiator into the nose. Much of the metal plumbing can also be seen. The cooling system tubing will be described more fully below. The only engine accessory that is belt driven is the alternator (arrow). The crankshaft vibration dampener is a rebuilt vintage part, but a Mopar small block dampener will work provided the keyway is widened and a new TDC index is engraved.

The right hand arrow shows a good view of the driver’s side front torsion bar arm, which is tucked behind the tube axle. The timing chain cover is an early cast aluminum part. PAW sells a nice cast timing cover for Chryslers/Dodges Hemis; note that early Dodge and Chrysler Hemi timing covers interchange (except extended block 331 Chryslers). The PAW part is clearanced for use with a SB Chevy style water pump. My track roadster is equipped with an electric water pump, as you will see in Figures 17 and 18.

PHOTO 15

This image shows a good view of the custom fabricated cylinder head water crossover (upper arrow) and radiator plumbing (lower arrow). Stock early Dodge and Chrysler (not DeSotos) have a huge heavy cast iron water manifold. Here we reduced weight on the front of the engine by at least 40 lbs. The water cross over was initially fabricated by Dick Easterwood, in Raytown MO (Kansas City area). Dick fabricated the cross over tubing from stainless elbows and straight lengths, but a similar part could be fabricated from a pre-bent bathtub/shower grip rail (Home Depot/Lowes). The aluminum thermostat housing (upper arrow), Dick machined, was drastically modified by Jack Presse, to give the housing a 40s/50s design appearance. I really like the final version; it is handsome, sleek and functional. The radiator tubing was fabricated in stainless steel; the threaded nipple on the upper passenger’s side tube (red arrow) is a fitting for the heater tube (see the heater tube in Figure 16). This photo shows a factory sheet metal timing cover, which was used during storage and construction.

PHOTO 16

Here is a closer view of the water cross over from above. The coolant temp sensor for the EFI can be seen on the back of the thermostat housing. The curved pipe in the center (long arrow) is the oil filler pipe. The radiator was painted semi-gloss black. This is a fairly recent photo and the final fasteners for the front of the engine are in place. Jack and I chose to use small-headed, twelve-point, stainless bolts, the fasteners for the thermostat cover will be changed. The short arrow points to the heater tube which runs to the firewall.

PHOTO 17

This is a wide view of the radiator and front of the engine, lots of goodies in this photo. The OEM electric water pump can be partially seen (yellow arrow), as can a temperature control module, which regulates the water pump operating cycle (red arrow).

In 1956 Dodge first produced the D500 Hemi at 315 ci, in a street version and in a racing version. I know this is going to hurt the feelings of some SBC fans, but a STOCK 2 door D500 Dodge was faster in a quarter mile than a STOCK FI ’56 Corvette, at least according to the road tests of that era. In the hands of Lee Petty the D500 Dodges were very successful in NASCAR [correction, my error, Corvettes did not have FI until 1957; the hi po version ah 2x4bbls]. The engine in my roadster is a 1957 engine (325 ci), these motors were designated by numbers beginning with KD500 (green arrow). I’ll probably do a more complete description of the engine later. Briefly this motor was painstakingly blueprinted. For all practical purposes the engine is set up using Dodge Factory specifications. The compression ratio is the same as the factory spec at 9.25:1. The pistons are new Ross cast alum pieces, which were chosen for their good expansion characteristics in street engines. I found a NOS cam blank and had Chris Nelson in Utah grind a factory KD500 hydraulic (1957) cam profile. If it was good enough for the California Highway Patrol, it’s good enough for me. This combination is good for about 5000 rpm with excellent manifold vacuum and gobs of torque; but not much of a screamer. The early Dodge Hemis, unlike the Chryslers and DeSotos, are undersquare with a smaller bore than stroke. It may not rev very high but it will pull like a freight train.

This photo gives a good view of the headlight perch (arrowhead). Also, one can see a bit of the electric radiator fan housing (white arrow??) . Jack Presse gets full credit for stuffing lots of gyzmos in a small space; especially considering there is not a standard part in the whole muckin’ fess.


PHOTO 18

A good view of the electric water pump and its control module. The small 12 point fasteners are visible. The standard hose clamps will be used where they are hidden from view; for clamps that are easily seen we will probably use an earlier “crimp” style clamp. In the tight confine of the track nosed roadster the hex drive band clamps will be much easier to remove is service is required.

 

"I say right on Ole Boy, a jolly green racer it is!"

 

That Hemi is pretty nasty looking. I'd like to have one of those in one of my cars.

 

What incredible craftsmanship. Thanks for sharing.

 

Great frame! I like how you went from some teaser pics to detailed shots complete with arrows and explanations of each component. Could you pleases tell us what each bolt size is and what gauge wiring you used? I wish all the builds on here were this thorough!

 

Speechless.............what forethought & incredible attention to detail! (okay, not speechless)

 

Trakrodstr,
You have put 14 years into this car and obviously a ton of money, now the real question: Are you going to drive it or is it going to be a "trailer queen"? To me nothing defines a real hot rod like worn tires and some paint chips from putting on the miles.

Rex

 

Love the Motor! - and the Color Too!

AB

 

Thanks to "ABBoston", Rex Shimmer", "Rick Finch", "26T", “LT-1”, “Flying Tiger” and “conversandbowlinshirts” for their recent comments.

Since I have several new HAMB contacts I thought I would start to explain where the inspiration for the nose of my roadster came from…before I begin showing any bodywork.

My favorite car of all time is the front drive Miller 91. The Miller radiator surround and grill are beautiful, but too narrow for a hot rod chassis. In my opinion, the design does not lend itself to "widening". The late 30s grand prix Maseratis, however, have a nose that is inherently wider with a hint of the Kurtis style nose. After agonizing for a while I finally asked Jack Presse to build an "Americanized" version of the Maserati 8CTF front end. One thing Jack had to deal with is that even though the Dodge is a 3/4 sized Hemi, the large heads and valve covers hang over frame rails pinched for a model A cowling. Also, how does the designer avoid a big bulbous nose and still have a pleasing profile, which narrows sharply as it travels from the Model A cowl to a track-style grill? You are going to see that Jack did a masterful job.

So you folks in the HAMB community who want to see the “grandfather” of the nose now sitting on my roadster…look up the winningest car in Indy history, the “Boyle Special” which Wilber Shaw drove to victory in 1938 and 1940; this chassis had many top five finishes, after 1940, and ran at Indy into the 50s.

Thanks to ALL for the interest, I have to admit after such a long time in the dark with this project, I was beginning to get a bit cynical. It's great to know that all the planning and thought were not wasted and that other gearheads would understand what we have been trying to do.

Trakrodstr

 

Rex,

You ask an important question....

I am going to grab the roadster by the scruff of its neck and drive the shit out of it.

Is that the right answer?

Trakrodstr

 

You remind me of a girl I dated in high school.Quite the tease, to the point of losing intrest.