Ahh, but therein lies the problem. Under the current business model the Advertiser is their customer. The reader is just an unfortunate necessity to get their customer to spend!
i used to have subscriptions to at least 5 car magazines, probably more to be honest. i've let them all run out at this point except for grassroots motorsports. i plan on buying their lifetime subscription package soon. seems like the others just aren't what they used to be and the content in most magazines is just too repetitive. i remember 5.0 magazine used to publish an issue every year which i think was about "beginner projects" and every year it had the same exact articles. primedia pretty much killed the quality of all their magazines in my opinion
Jeeeezze! I guess I'd better just get out my 'ol .45 and end it all now! Fuck, 30+ years of helping build the hot rodding hobby into a multi-billion dollar industry and I was all wrong and none of it ever worked anyway! Wow, how wrong I've been all these years. Click... Ryan, I respect what you've done on this site, but you're full of shit to state that print advertising doesn't work and the web is the only true god. My clients can track every dollar invested into their print advertising and we can map the number of calls, the number of "conversions" (sales), the products that show interest, and test new product opportunities as well. You imply that all the multi-million dollar performance businesses are just too stupid to quantify and qualify the budgets that they spend each year on advertising? I know you're smarter than that. And you probably don't need any advertising revenue because you receive $50 each year from the - what is it now - 60,000 members on here? (oh, my renewal is on the way too) Car magazines are not failing - corporate raider/consolidation/jet-setting wallstreeters that tried to wring every fucking ounce of excess cash out of the magazines have just about killed the business. The "shareholders" have demanded ad rate increases of 7 to 12% each year over the past five years. Editorial staffs have been cut to the bone. Page sizes have shrunk by as much as half an inch. And, yes circulation on SOME titles is down because of the diminished edit quality and the sheer number of titles in each category. But there are still 80K plus subscribers to Goodguys, 135K paid circ for Street Rodder, 70K pay to read R&C, and MILLIONS more buy the other auto titles every month.Print is a long way from dead. But we don't just throw an ad out and wait for the phone to ring. The very best companies merge their marketing between ads, event participation, public service, web depth, and continuous tracking and tweaking. You don't stay in business for decades by accident or stupidity. As for you guys that think the magazines ought to be Consumer Reports - grow up. ALL special interest magazines promote the products and services of their advertisers- No advertisers= No writers, no photographers, no magazines. Period. I though we were all Capitolists here? I love the blogs and E-zines too, but 99% of them also have biases and most don't even receive enough revenue for the host to live off of. Some, though, are luckier than others. And finally, to all you long suffering Petersen/E-Map/K-III/SIC survivers - thanks for what you HAVE been able to do for the last ten years - if the "people" only knew! And, KIRK!, vacation's over. Get back into a suit and tie you hippie.
Prime Media thought they were going to corner the market in car mags, went way into debt to do it, then found they couldn't make it pay. So they sold out to these guys, and now they can't make it pay. Surprise. The original few automotive mags were viable, long term, based on content that engaged the reader. But that was a long time ago.
Just flippingthrough hrm and I notice the majority of the magazine is written be freiburger and Rob Kinnan, with Marlan Davis on a few tech sections. That's it, the end, those two are writing the majority of that book *every* month. Sure, there are contributors that submit stories and get paid a few bucks, but anybody can be a contributor. I encourage anybody that is so inclined to do it and add something to make HotRod or CC or whatever mag you enjoy, better. How those guys can write as much as they do, as fast as they do, and as well as they pull it all off is beyond me.
Newstands are locked up for only big circulation titles. Publishers also have to be willing to buy back all unsold copies. That's why you only see Rodders Journal in bookstores - 80K is about minimum for grocery store type sales. TRJ prints about 15K copies and gets a reasonable rate for their subscriptions, but they still get most of their revenue from advertisers. If "passion" will pay your mortgage, insurance, car payments, groceries, and retirement - then go for it!
The local public library now has "playaways" they're testing for public use. Small mp3-like devices with the book content built into them.You insert the earpods and press "play." Someone with a baritone or sweet feminine voice reads the book for you. Now,books on disc have been prevelant for years,but now the books are small enough to fit into your pocket. The future is coming hard and fast. I too like print matter.Newspapers and books are lumbering into the sunset though.
I'm 100% with Ryan here. Print is slowly burning out, but like he said...its getting rid of all of the unneeded mediocre material. Do we really need to see 50 different 2-page-spread ads throughout a magazine? Or would you rather the magazine cover more of the tech and amazing editorials and photography? With all of the ad revenue pushing a publication, you lose more of the important content. As far as advertising goes, you have to be SUPER CREATIVE nowadays to get a product to sell. Just as our generation has been desensitized against violence...we've also been desensitized against advertising. For instance, Ryan mentioned Apple...they have to be the most innovative company out there...they made the iPod and iPhone a common item in nearly every home...not to mention they back up their quality ads with quality products. Online advertising is the biggest waste of money of all in my opinion. People hate pop up ads, and are afraid to stray away from main pages...so why spend money on that? Yesterday I got one of those annoying flash pop-ups that panned across the entire screen...as soon as it loaded I closed it, not even looking to see what it was for... Print won't be "Dead" anytime soon, but only the quality publications will hold through...and thats what we want...the best to shine through...hell maybe with all of these publications thinning out, it will kill the popularity of the *Insert "R" Word here* rod trend... Listen to Ryan, he knows what he's talking about.
Let me say right up front that I know very little about the stock market and big business. But hear me out. Let’s look at 2 examples. If my views are wrong, I’m sure somebody will let me know LOL. The product they produce doesn’t matter. Company “A” is a private, maybe family owned business. They need to make a profit to put food on the table and for operating costs and also some cash to put back into the business which the owner has a passion for. (After all, it’s HIS business.) His products are top notch and lets face it, that’s the whole point. To build the best product he can, to stay profitable and to hopefully grow his business. He’ll never be the next Microsoft but that’s not the point. People respect the product he makes because he makes a good one and stands behind it. Now lets look at the other end of the spectrum: Company “B” is a public company. They were a small business that did well just like Company “A” except for the fact that they got bought out. Job # 1 has now just gone from building the best product they can to finding ways to increase profits by producing the product cheaper and reducing overhead. The story can pretty much stop here, because in my mind, it’s over at this point. But let’s continue. The new “owners” figure they can send some manufacturing “offshore” but of course, continue to trade on the company’s past goodwill and try to keep that on the downlow. Quality continues to go down and sure some folks lose their jobs but hey, the company is still making money although it’s reputation may be somewhat tarnished by now. But the stockholders are happy. In my mind at this point it is game over. The company’s mission is no longer to make a quality product profitably. It is now to make MAXIMUM profit. Damn the torpedos But back on point. The car magazine industry is suffering from tons of redundancy. I think I continue to subscribe to most of em’ because the subs are giveaway cheap. A year for $12 or $15 or $19 I can do. But if they have to raise subscription prices to $25 or $30 a year to remain solvent they’ll be in even worse shape. The cream will rise to the top and in no way will some of the shit that’s out there survive nor should it. But I don’t believe car magazines will ever totally die. I still like to hold a magazine in my hands. It’s real and I know I can pop that book in my collection and 20 years later it’s still there for reference. Kinda like “hard evidence” of build styles and technology gone by. I love the web but pixels don’t give me the same rush. Where the web excels is in the immediate, huge volume of info available, be it pictures or tech that even the best car magazines in the world could never hope to cover. It’s what keeps me gut hooked on the HAMB.
Well after seeing this happen this is probably going to be a bad time to start but oh well...i am starting a digest size magazine the first issue will be out within 6 months it is called Piecrust magazine it will be a little of everything cool hotrods customs gassers/racecars and bikes...I know im not going to be huge and i am not planing on getting huge so i am not going to burry my self with employees..this will be a quarterly magazine about 60 or so pages on high gloss print and not many ads it will be priced in the 6-7 dollar range...oh well start from scratch and keep on scratching is what my wife says
Ryan,Thank you for the HAMB. Kirk thank you for Spockabilly! I think mags should maybe do less frequent issues and more money per issue IE The Lot Church Gazette Hop Up Rodders Journal (not a mag IMO but content is what I am talking about) I dont get people bashing the sales people who are doing what they are told to do for their jobs = SELL. I am in Sales always have been and always will be. If it was my job to sell advertising I am going to do the best job I can and sell the most advertising space I can and for that, I better be compensated! Editors choose their job as well, no one asked them to be editors. IMO, With out sales people there would be no need for editors, because under the current model Advertising is paving the way for the Mag to be run! They are not making money off $14 dollar subscriptions. BTW, I had a subscription to R&C until 2012 I just renewed my sub for Goodguys, because I love the Gazzette. Lots of pictures!!! Bigdaddy
Everyone seems to be using the current economical situation to give themselves a 50 million dollar bonus, bankrupt their company in the process and retire with no questions asked "hey man, you see the way the economy is." What sucks is all of the middle class employees scraping a living together have to lose their job in the process.
Go for it dude, now's the time for people who are into it cause they love it to break through all of the bull shit. If you can stick around when there's no money out there and still put the passion in to keep it going, well people take notice. I know I like to support other hot rodders like myself.
I haven't bought Hot Rod Magazine in years! Can you say: SUCK? I can!! Ditto for other mags I used to buy religiously in the 1970s, i.e., Car Craft, etc. The new 'Hot Rod' Magazine is:
I love print magazines. I usually do not even really look at on line only ones. There is also a lot of things I do not like about print magazines. Some of them (Street Rodder) have waaaay to many ads. Some of the magazines need to go away but those will be the ones that stay. I have been dropping a lot of them (car and non car) due to crappy content and to save money. I think we will just have to wait it out and see what happens and see who is able to stick it out.
I really like the mags ! Online is great but I prefer reading the mags when I want to and like many of us , we keep them . I got stacks of mags and use them as a reference many times . Love looking thought all the alder mags too . So many things have come around again ! Hate to see anyone loose their job like that . When will it all stop ?
Speak for yourself ... those of us who can read DO read (at least I do). Rodders Journal - cover to cover; other mags I read the tech articles first, check out event coverage (lookin' for friends' cars) and then, MAYBE I'll check out the feature pictures. Personally, I don't buy the "picture books."
Exactly... All my Magazines are in boxes right now to move them, but I've decided that not all of them are going to make it back onto the bookshelfs. I kept my Subs for years longer that I should have, hoping they'd turn it around. I dont think I need those issue's anymore. ( and that is a big decission for me, I havent gotten rid of a Magazine since I started buying them in the '70s)
Paraphrasing: "We're not going to do anything differently... we're just not going to pay the people we owe money to." Gee, sounds like somebody I'd like to know better... NOT. Actually, it sounds to me like it ought to be considered criminal.
No assumptions, no room for interpretation, you didn't leave any... I salute you sir on your mastery of the art of talking out of both sides of your mouth... Nice... I'm getting a little concerned here... You do realize that there are in fact PEOPLE behind the posts you've so colorfully critiqued in the sections I've bolded above... It's a little late to get all butt-hurt about a 'personal attack' now...
timing is every thing , I got the new issue of home town hot rod, and it is great as usual information and how to's that are important to me. This and the Rodders Journal are the only two magazines I get, and I hope they never sell out. I have canceled every magazine I got before these two because they sold out to the big guy and became of no intrest to me. jim h
COX is the same way. They all have the same announcer calling out the different call letters, the same morning news/weather/traffic with the same exact format. Just bring up several "live" Cox broadcasts on the web and notice how similar they are. All of this saves them money and they could care less about 'serving the local community' any longer. Newspapers across the country are going down the tubes, why should magazines be any different. Like has been said, the owners are firing all the real talent, hire a bunch of "just out of college" newbees for nothing then squeezing the last dime out, let it fold and find something else to ruin.
No assumptions, no room for interpretation, you didn't leave any... Of course you made assumptions, your smart ass Speedy Bill comment was an assumption that I was somehow defending them, when it was clearly stated that I was not. And this statement you made: Then there are people who will bash anybody's opinion or research unless it's exactly what they want to hear... is full of assumptions. Although that is probably true, you make assumptions in order to make the statement. And if you are directing it at me, you have made incorrect assumptions. Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by hotroddon I agree with you to an extent. unfortunately what happens on forums like this is one guys makes a comment that is based on opinion not fact and 47 other Band Wagoners join in with more uneducated opinions. This happens on forums every day. There have been many products and companies bashed on here (and plenty of other sites) by people with no real world experience and nothing but conjecture. What happens is a guy gets a product and mis-installs it or mis-uses This is an unfortunate truth, having been in this industry for 35+ years I have had to deal with people bad mouthing a product only to find out they did an improper installation and or didn't follow directions but in the meantime have bashed that product. it and then it is a "POS" in his mind and he tells the world. Now a whole bunch of keyboard soldiers join in and a bad rap happens with no facts whatsoever to back it up. And that also happens and is one of the bad things about the Internet and forums Take the Speedway 97 as an example, and I'm not defending the carb by any means. There were pages upon pages of smack talk without a single guy who had actually run a carb! This is true - reread the thread.Then there were "Independent tests" that listed more opinions and more smack talk Although the test was carried out by someone I even recommended, it was the conclusions carried out by consequent posters that I am talking about, some that didn't even pay attetion to the report. Still no one who had actually driven a car with one. Including the tester, that's just a fact. Finally a guy says he tried one and it seemed to work fine, but that was lost in all the rhetoric. My point is a bunch of "enthusiasts" can be just as bad as a magazine article that gets swayed by the almighty ad dollar. If someone who isn't really qualified to test or install a product and then reports on it with inaccuracies that the public believes, it is just as bad as an editor or tech writer that slants the facts to satisfy a big advertiser. Maybe the intention isn't as bad but the end result is. Which is why I also said There are good threads and there are good magazine tech articles, unfortunately they all must be taken with a grain of salt. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by hotroddon I never bashed anyones research but I will take issue with opinions that are not based in at least a modicum of fact. This is true and I will take issue with stated opinions about a product that have no facts or knowledge to back them up. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> I salute you sir on your mastery of the art of talking out of both sides of your mouth... Sorry, not that talented, just trying to point out the difference between non biased reporting or testing versus opinions from thin air Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by hotroddon But there are too many people that just dribble out garbage . </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> Nice... What else would you call some of the brilliant posts that say things like "Piece of Shit" with no other statements, "all foreign built parts are crap" or the especially eloquent statements to the affect of "Gayass Fucktard". This kind of nonsense ends up in posts everyday. Quote: <TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=alt2 style="BORDER-RIGHT: 1px inset; BORDER-TOP: 1px inset; BORDER-LEFT: 1px inset; BORDER-BOTTOM: 1px inset">Originally Posted by hotroddon And as for your personal attack, maybe you should grow up a little. </TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE> I'm getting a little concerned here... You do realize that there are in fact PEOPLE behind the posts you've so colorfully critiqued in the sections I've bolded above... Of course I do and that is why I didn't call out any particular person or post but rather used an entire thread as an example of how out of control the bashing can get, unlike you, who made an incorrect assumption about what I was saying and then made a Oh So Funny comment about Speedy Bill It's a little late to get all butt-hurt about a 'personal attack' now... Never said I was, as you so poetically put it, "Butt-hurt" about your stupid line, only that it was out of line since you missed the point and that it really served no purpose. To use your own words, Don't you realize that there are people behind these posts ......
All my writers are doing it because they have a passion, I can't pay a dime or make a dime but I'm in it for the long haul. I try not to have the same cars everyone else features. I hate it when I see the same article/car in different 'zines. I'm trying to make each issue unique. I don't want to put out the same content/different month. Since I'm a musician I'm kinda thinking of each issue as an album. Same band different music. Slightly different approach but familiar enough for continuity. Hell I just started a 4x4 magazine. Either I'm passionate or stupid. I haven't figured it out yet.
Dude just say it... "Anybody who disagrees with me is an idiot." There, doesn't that feel better? Go back and READ... Jere Jobe ran it on his dyno to compare it to an original... Never mind that he had to completely rebuild it to get it to work and even then it FAILED... But this thread is about MAGAZINES... You want to talk about Speedy's 9-Super-Awesome-7, do it somewhere else...
The Jalopy Journal
