My 59 Edsel has a 3 speed auto that is leaking from every possible orifice, and needs to come out of the car. My options seem to be a stock rebuild, or an upgrade to newer C4 or C6. The car is just going to be a cruiser, and the 361 motor is going to stay pretty close to stock. Just a mild port, newer carb and better intake mani. So will the Fordomatic (Mile-o-Matic I guess, since it's an Edsel) hold up to everyday use as well as a later trans? Can it handle slightly more power than stock without blowing up? Thanks!
I also own a 59 Edsel Wagon (Currently for sale here) with the same 361. The cost of rebuilding the antique will be considerably more than a C-6. The C-6 is a direct bolt in for you only needing a drive line shortened. They never made a C-4 for the FE. motor series. Were I faced with your decision I wouldn't hesitate to do the C-6, it's a good up-grade. The Wizzard
If I wanted to go bullet proof it would be a C-6 period. A c-4 is ok but weak hi clutch hub as to clutches. PA builds a wicked racing C-4 but since he does custom he could keep the auto valve body but as in any good hipo parts its pricey in the $3,500 area. A C-6 is way easier to build and once built there solid as a rock.
AOD only comes with a SBF bolt pattern. I'd need a costly adapter, and an even more expensive rebuild to keep from blowing it up. Too expensive for my tastes. I'll just keep my 2.98 rear end, or drop in a 2.78 8.8" axle if that's not good enough. I found this rebuild kit on Ebay http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=110383579510, pretty inexpensive. I'd have to take it to a transmission shop to have the work done though, I've never messed with a slushbox before. Not sure how hard it is to rebuild one of these boxes. I'm handy enough, but pretty ignorant as to the particulars. So the C6 is a direct bolt in? I can use the same flexplate and starter? How about the trans crossmember? I want to have the driveshaft rebuilt anyway, so shortening it can be done at the same time. Thanks again guys!
I'll get in on this... I have 2 Edsels. The '59 has the oddball aluminum 2-speed with a 332 FE and the '58 has the 361 "E-400" with a Teletouch byp***ed floor shifted Fordomatic. I feel I'm facing the same issues sooner or later. Is the FE the oddball as far as transmission bolt patterns? Isn't a FE C-6 pretty much the only bolt in choice?
IMO there is nothing wrong with the durability of the orginal 3 speed transmission that the Edsels carried. It would be more than strong enough for what you want to do. Parts are getting to get a bit pricey for them though but the labor time to do one is really no more than a C6. As for other bolt in transmissions that wouldn't require an adapter plate to mate it to the block would be the C6. FWIW, my vote would be to rebuild your existing transmission. Oh, the Mile-O-Matic transmission in the 59 and 60 Edsels was a two speed transmission. The three speed transmission was called a Dual-Power Automatic.
You could also use the FMX which was a 1968 upgrade of the Ford O Matic/Cruise a matic/Mile O Matic/Merc O Matic and whatever else they called the early one. The AOD was actually based on the FMX design according to some sources.
You are absolutely right, hard to keep all these goofy trans names straight. When I was researching this, I found references to the "Cruisomatic" being a three speed introduced in the late fifties. The description sounded like my trans, starting in second and only using first for hard acceleration (or when in D1). I'm not sure where this fits in with the FMX. I sent the seller of the Ebay kit a question asking if it's for a 2 or 3 speed. The year range is from 51 to 67, so I'm hopeful. I don't think they made 2 speeds that late into the 60's. We'll see. I think this trans *should* be workable, after all it did last 50 years. If I can figure out how to find the parts, I'd like to try and rebuild it myself and toss in a C6 if I screw it up.
I would get an AOD or a C4 . The C4 is fine but the overdrive gear will save gas . Either one is good choice . I think the AOD is electronic shift . I have a 55 Ford with Ford O Matic and changing to a T5 , but I want a stick ! If I was going with an automatic I would choose the AOD due to the overdrive .
fordomatic is a 2 speed auto.ford later came out with the cruiseomatic/mercomatic which are 3 speeds. the first fordomatic was used in the 51 victorias.
No, the early Fordomatic transmissions were a 3 speed transmission. The shift quadrant may have only said lo and drive, but the transmission did have three forward gears. A quick Google search found this links which may help explain it, http://www.tocmp.com/manuals/Ford/1958/Service/04/FordOMaticandCruiseOMaticT/04-007.html http://www.charlie******.com/Fordomatic.htm
The choice would be a C6, but they are getting tough to find for the FE engines. another option is the easy to get FMX. It can be bolted to your FE bell housing. It is cast iron like the Ford o matic. Essentially the FMX is a revamped Fordomatic
Sorry about the name confusion guys. I'm still getting my head around all the old terminology. A quick craigslist search found a couple of c6s with FE bells in the area. All are several hours drive, and in core condition. Searching for FMX on CL and ebay seems to turn up mostly Cleveland trannies. But I'm gathering that my bell fits the FMX? I haven't heard anybody say these 3 speeds are total junk yet. I think it's a nice bonus that this car still has the original motor and trans after all these years. It's the main reason why I'd like to keep the slushbox I have as long as it's not going to frag itself after a couple of years of daily duty. Jeff, I may be PM'ing you at some point for parts. My next step is to find a compression checker and see if I should just yank the whole motor while I'm at it. I picked up this car thinking it needed a carb rebuild and some brake work. I had no idea what I was in for... I guess that's half the fun
Studebaker used the same trans but called it the Flight O Matic or FOM. They are a Borg-Warner transmission and were also used by several other US and a couple foreign automakers. Some versions started out in second gear unless manually downshifted into first so some people thought they were only 2 speeds. I just acquired the Studebaker version on the back of a spare V-8 so have been doing some checking. The '65 and '66 Canadian built Chevy powered Studes used the sane trans with a Chevy bellhousing pattern. Probably not something most Chevy guys know or care to know for that matter. For a cruiser or daily driver they are fine and parts are available. The FMX is an upgrade and some Stude guys have gone to the trouble to swap the Stude input shaft into an FMX to use the newer trans.
I have just replaced the cruse-o-matic in my 64 Country Sedan with a C6. The transmission crossmember is about 2 inches to far forward for the transmission mount to line up & the driveshaft needs to be shortened. I am just waiting for my driveshaft to come back & I will be good to go!
So here is my first hand nuts and bolts knowledge of all these pieces being talked about. First off a C-4 in stock form will NOT bolt to any FE blocks. Also my personal Opinyon is that they are not worth what ever it takes to make them work on the FE motor. Second is that there is NO A.O.D. out there that will bolt up either. I don't remember any C-6 using the old style starter with the long bendix drive. That means you need the steel plate for the C-6 so the starter indexes correctly. When I put the C-6 in my 58 Ford I did something to the frame mount and used a 65-67 mount pad. It had to be easy or I'd remember what I did. That same car had a worn out steering box and I bolted in a 59 Edsel gear box. It took the 58 3 speed auto mast jacket and steering wheel no problem. This tells me if you want a 3 speed selector to go with your C-6 use the Ford unit and you should be home free. To answer your first question, there is nothing wrong with re-building what you have if you can find the right Shop to help you out. They are plenty Tough enough for daily beating and Cruzing around. Personally I just like to up-grade when working on this old Iron. I've owned many 57-59 Fords and 3 Edsels and currently have a 57 2d Ht. A 58 2d Ht. A 59 2d Ht. And a 59 Edsel. I've built every combination of 6 cyl's 302's 351's and every Fe including the 427 Cammer. If I owned your car and it needed a ****** it would get a fresh C-6. Good Luck,,, The Wizzard
Jeff Walker is correct about the Ford O Matics ! I have one in my 55 Ford and it is the Drive & Low but if you pull in Low while stopping at light it will you will feel it drop into the 1st gear . You m have to pull down hard and maybe a couple time but it will drop down in 1st . Now when you leave from the stop you will be in 1st the move shifter to low that will be 2nd then drive is 3rd . It's tricky by works ! As for the trans the Cruise a matic is a good trans & the FMX is alittle tougher but you must get them rebuilt by someone that knows them well . Those two will last you well and are a very strong trans . I prefer the Cruise over the FMX but either will work . As for the C6 ,I see them all the time on Craigs List here in Pa. I don't think you ever told us what engine you have or I missed it . There was a good choice of engines back then . So what do you have ?
The longer I work with this car, the more I come around to this way of thinking. It's increadible that any car can survive for 50 years, particularly one as universally derided as an Edsel. I wouldn't think twice about updating the trans if it was a ticking time bomb, but if it's capable of giving me a good number of trouble free years after rebuild I'd just as soon keep it. I know it's going to be a balancing act to keep as much original as possible, while still building a reliable driver. When it comes to safety items like brakes and tires I'm not willing to compromise to keep things original. On the other hand, things like the trans aren't safety issues.
This car is a Corsair sedan with the 4bbl 361 "Super Express V8" backed by the 3 speed auto. It was the range topper motor back then, in the range topper model. That's mostly the reason I'm shy about changing the drivetrain. I'd feel less guilty about swapping around the guts it it was a 332 or a 6 cyl.
Don't meen to high jack the thread, but if someone needs one, I've got one from a 51 victoria crestliner. I too was wondering if they were worth rebuilding. Thanks for starting this post. PM me if interested in the trans
Then I think I would just do a rebuild . By the time you get all the parts and a trans to change over you I guess you will have about the same if not less in a rebuild . I believe you can rebuild the trans yourself ! They are not as complicated as the ones we have now . When I change my Ford O Matic out for the T5 swap , I am going to try and rebuild the FOM and see what happens . I have another project that I am rebuilding a Y block for so I might use it in that one . Would be fun to rebuild anyway ! Good Luck with your decision !
Like I said earlier, My Edsel is all Stock running gear. I wouldn't think of changing any of it just for the sake of Change. Your stock ****** is fine and bottom line once rebuilt will go another 100K. It is by far the easiest repair you can do for the car. As far as it being all Stock 59 Edsel when it comes time to sell it I don't think that accounts for much. I have not had one person ask if my Wagon is all stock, only "how does it drive". From what I have read in your remarks I believe you have decided to fix what you have. That is a good decision, your car will be fine for a long time to come. The Wizzard P.S. The ****** from the 51 Vicky won't fit at all.
Off hand, the bellhousing bolt pattern would be different. The FE motor was still a *****le in an engineers eye in 51. Isn't yours a 2 speed as well? I'm not sure if the words "resale value" and "Edsel" can fit comfortably in the same sentance. I have decided to rebuild my trans, like you said, no need to change for change's sake. I just made this thread to make sure my efforts wouldn't be wasted.
Not real sure, I pulled the 8ba flattie out of a car my grandfather had. He wanted me to take the trans in case someone may need it. I've been tripping over it now for a few years, and would like to see someone get some use out of it!!
I'm not sure if the words "resale value" and "Edsel" can fit comfortably in the same sentance. L.O.L. Edsel owners seem to be,, let's say "Thrifty" at the least. I figure IF I can get $3500.oo out of my wagon I'll only Loose $3500.oo.
I have an article buried in a car mag that would take days browsing every index just to find so I'm not EVEN going to go looking for it. That said, It was an article about upgrading the fordomatic in a 60 starliner to an fmx. The ford-0-matic bell was bolted to the fmx so it could be used with the 292/312. The reason it was done was his ****** went out and also for being able to select 1st gear and to have external cooling. The author noted that doing something like pulling the shifter from low to high then back into low would give first gear with the ford-0-matic. See post #34 RMT said "Starting in low, accelerate to at least 25 mph. Shift to drive then right back to low. The transmission will now be in second gear."
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