V8-60 front axles: an appreciation

I am looking for a V8 60 tube axel for my 36 Roadster project any one have one they want to part with Danny.

 

Here is a Stagger Valve Fronty from the late 1930's with one. I bet they saw more use in dirt track cars than Hot Rods pre WWII.

 

Ok Piero, I'll play along as well...Lucky

 

I have a tube axle that came off of an extremely original, unmolested '39 Standard 60 HP coupe a couple of years ago. Interestingly, the car also had the 3 1/2" wheels. A close friend owns an original, unrestored '40 DeLuxe convertible (85 HP) with a tube axle underneath it. He has seen Ford documentation that talks about the tube axles being built in sporadic batches of 1,000. It's also interesting to note that the tube axles use an entirely different king pin locking bolt than those used on the beam axles. It's a relatively long, non-tapered bolt that is inserted through the axle from the rear with a castelated nut threaded on from the front. There is a long-ish, bulbous head on this "bolt" on the rear side that serves the purpose of a spindle-turning stop. DD

 

Here in GA I had a friend (now long dead) whose father owned what was probably the largest junk yard in the area back in the 50s and 60s. I can remember spending Thanksgiving day of '56 installing a trans in my '32 Ford 3 window East Coast style unchopped but channeled coupe along with my friend in the 1 car shop @ this junk yard his father owned. We had ripped out the cluster gear in a hard shift to 2nd the night before in an impromptu drag race.
As the years went by and I became better acquainted with Lonnie's Dad Howard, I worked there during layoffs and strikes @ the Fisher Body plant in Atlanta where I worked.
I vividly remember a '37 flatback tudor rolled on it's roof about 50' West of the door from the shop to the yard. It was a 60hp, had a tube axle, and the aforementioned 4.44:1 rear gear ( pinion and ring gear numbers stamped on the underside of the center rib on the banjo housing. I don't have any records, or know where to find them, but by God I damn shore lived with them!
Dave

 

Man, was thinking bout this post last night while out in the garage.
I too have a V8-60 axle I was going to use under my belly tank project. I still will, but when I get to that project.

Meanwhile, I'm going to use it under my new 50's style hot rod build. So I bought this axle a year or two ago... big money. I had the choice of two, one which was chromable, and another not as nice. I picked the nicer axle...

Welp, I figured it was time to start polishing it for the future chrome job. Man, chromable my ass... lots of little pits that I never realized were there. Wow, lots of work... now I know why paint is a lot easier. Never went the chrome route, a lot of work.

I'll post some pics as I get closer... maybe get some chrome on it.

 

Nothing beats the look of a chromed V8 60 axle but I've recently became a little gun shy... my axle was an original paint and road grime unit... the more I worked on cleaning it up the more factory blems appeared... a buddy thought it had been straightened and when he found one in original condition at a swap meet called and said "I found one nice enough to be chromed and offered to pick it up for me"... well when I looked at it was about the same condition as the one I was working on... same issues... the delemia was how much material can be taken off and still be safe... since my car is being overbuilt for a reason I only decided to go so far and pass on chrome... well, a couple months later I became more confident in my decision - the Pierson Bros Coupe showed up at the Glenmoor Gathering with a cracked axle... so my spare became its replacement... so it does and can happen - especially using a tube with split bones or hairpins that put additional pressure on the axle...

 

Are these axles drop forged or made from steel tubing as the one above looks to have the markings of a forging

 

If you have read through the thread you will come to a conclusion that everyone has an opionion but nobody really knows... it has a hollow tube center and there are no signs of a welded seam... as mentioned earlier it looks like tubing that was drawn through a shaper (I'm assuming manually since they are not consistant)... the ends seemed forged to me but I'm completely puzzled on how the were joined... the wall is relatively heavy... I hope someone can shed some light on the manufactoring process... an interesting side note: my spare that will be on the Pierson Bros coupe belonged to the guy that originally made the forged I beams now offered by Chassis Engineering... he evidently didn't think it was worthwhile to reproduce one since he sold the one he was saving for a pattern... after removing factory paint from two axles - I called a guy who bought a NOS one: he laughed and said his wasn't much better

 

I have not seen one in recent years that could be touched for under 500. I guess the current market price dictates worth.

 

nice! its like a huge go kart!

 

I have one that came out of a one-family-owned, "un-screwed-with" '39 Standard coupe with the 60 horse. IT ALSO HAD THE SKINNY WHEELS. The axle has gone under my '40 coupe. DD

 

I call BS on this quote and won't believe it until I see a pic. The V8-60 tube axle I had looked like a hollow forged end (how they did that I don't know) welded to a tube center. The perch bosses were part of the forged ends on mine.

As for price, I sold mine overseas for a very pretty penny, but it was also VERY nice condition. Have since seen what I believe is my old axle pictured on a black '34 3 window with a LaSalle grille. Axle looks copper plated.

 

A Detroit area friend named Al Singer (deceased), was possibly the first one to use the Ford tube axle in a Race Car.
He was a mechanic and car owner dating back to the the Twenties, and used to buy Fronty Heads direct from L. Chevrolet.
He told me that he learned of the Ford tube axle and showed it to friends on the AAA "Big Car" circuit in the later Thirties. Ted Horn was the first to try the tube axle on his car, and was successful with it. Singer then supplied Horn and other car owners with the axle since he had contacts at Ford in Dearborn.

Tom

 

I'm running a V8 60 axle on my 27 with a Schroeder box... the location of the standard steering arm didn't... in my case it needed to be raised like Doane Spencers but I noticed the Mack T had one that was dropped... I know this is directly related to the axle but anyone using the V8 60 axle may be running into the same issue... here is a couple of pixs of mine and I posted step by step shots at:

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=431579

 

The Ford tube axle is so beautiful it has no business under any anything but early cars that you can see the axle under.

The Bell axle was/is so rare which was the reason Jim Ewing started the SuperBell axle company so many years ago. It is of course now owned by the good folks at Pete & Jake's in MO.

If I think about it I'll try and get some detailed pictures of the axle my friend has which is in grey paint and has a perch pad popped off it.

 

I am going to run one in my 34 coupe project. I mocked up the front end and realized the steering arm issue as well. Luckily, I have a raised steering arm like on the above picture. I have my axle laying in the next room if anyone wants me to check anything. Ends seem cast solid and the tube is seamless. I smoothed mine out for chroming so I do not remember any lines on it at all. Anyone have any issues with turning radius? I am using hairpins and wonder if I need to move my rear mounts on the inside of the frame rail.

 

Check Borgeson's website they're making a new forged tube axle. What's it a repop of ?

 

Just looks like a typical 'tube' axle, but probably alot stronger. They have forged ends welded to tube centers...you can see the angled welds. They don't look like the V8-60 axles though.

 

Thought you guys might want to see the last one I have, it was the best of the bunch, it was marked "C C" it's in the classified section.

 

This axle has been seriously stretched and reworked or it is not a V8 60 axle, unless it is a 1936 V8-60 axle. Notice it is being used in a 'spring over" type configuration with an unsplit 32/34 wishbone. It looks like a 32/36 style axle which means it is narrower than 37 up axles between the perch pins bosses/bores All other photos' of 60 axles in this thread show it being a 37-up style axle with the wider spread perch boss/bores and narrower between the perch pin/king pin cente lines. If it is indeed a 37 style 60 axle they did a VERY nice job on it if all that makes any sense.

 

The V8-60 front axle is oval in cross section, not circular. They can be replicated with some patience and work, but they will be of circular cross section and use a wedge bolt to secure the king pin. I built one in the '80s to run on a Grabowski 'tribute' T roadster. I used .240" wall, 2" OD seamless tubing and portions of a '37 Ford I-beam. Many who have seen the axle assume it to be the genuine article. If I knew how to post pictures, you could then have a look. The closest you're going to get is a look at the Hoser avatar. TINMAN from California spent some time checking out the car at Back to the Fifties in '07.

 

Well,... I couldn't sleep anyway, soooooo I put on my robe and slippers and wandered out to the garage (in 11 degree weather) and brought the tube axle in the house with a couple other items,...... to try some detective work.

A. a piece of gas welding rod
B. a pair of needle nose pliers
C. a Mini mag light
D. recently washed fingers

#1, The bungs for the perch pin boss,... is NOT welded on, it is part of the axle. inside & out no signs of welds or seams. (that I could find) visually with a light, or with the afore mentioned "clean digits"

#2, from the outer end of the perch pin boss toward the King pin boss,.. the end is hollow for another 2 1/4",... almost half the distance between both bosses. with a very smooth rounder inner conical shape where it becomes solid.

#3, I bent an (approximate) 1/4" , 90 Degree end on the welding rod,... with said probe I gently ran it inside the perch pin hole throughout the entire length of the tube, in both directions looking for a seam or weld of some sort,... Zip, Zero, Zilch, Nada,.....Nutt'in.

I would assume if Ford went so far as to weld these up and finish the weld,... they would not have done it on the outside and the inside,... (look at the resistance weld on wishbones). Also the entire inside of the tube has a consistent texture,.....

When I was cleaning up this axle, I noticed that there was total consistency in the material, no sign of a weld in any manner, sometime when cleaning up welded steel the weld (being harder) cleans up differently and becomes evident.

I am going to take a closer look at it tomorrow, but these axles leave us with more questions than answers.

So,... heres my question,... (Oh Boy, here we go ) Ford was doing some incredible foundry work at the time, Do you think these could be some sort of hollow core steel casting ?

 

Yup, right with Kevin, you cant make a 3.5" 40 Ford wheel. I mean, its not even close to the same diameters. I have 3 original V8-60 3.5" 40 Ford wheels. Some of the rarests wheels I own. Bet a lot of people havent seen or heard of those.

 

This picture was taken 8 years ago at the set up for the 50th. Detroit Autorama, when Bruce Meyer brought back Franks car for the show,..... That ugly ol' critter standing next to it is a younger version of "yours truly"

Just saying Hi to a really good old friend.

 

Harms Way, I guess we can call this axle #3 the one I bought from you all those years ago at Nats North. look familiar?

 

I would like to find one of these axles for my next hot rod project.

 

I got a 37 tudor humpback that had a 60 hp
it got the beam axle but i found a other 37
with 60 hp and tube axle it also had the sides
of the block made from stainles resistans welded
in i have found a few 60 hp made that way???
have dont seen any wide 5 in 3.5 but have
3 wide 5 16x5.5 with reversed rims both the rims and centers
are made of thinner material. Came out of a 36 3 window
that was scraped and made a horse wagon
out of in the early fifties
most of the 30s ford we had in sweden are
built in Denmark so they differ some from
the usa built but no one have heard of
5.5 in, rims

 

Well I've read through 5 pages and no one seems to know how they were made and that no re-pops were done but Bell Auto Parts was mentioned.

I believe Bell and or Hollywood Spring and Axle made and or sold a narrowed axle that was used under most homebuilt midget race cars and probably full width ones for big cars (sprint cars) and hot rods as well.

I also know exactly how my re-pop was made and some of you may want to peruse the pictures.