I was thrilled to know the car went back to the guy who raced it back then. I had collected EVERYTHING nos to complete that car and let him know it was available to him but I never heard from him. It's all loaded to go to Carlisle GM Nats this weekend. I hope he has a lot of fun bringing it back and putting it on the track again. Verne
I just spent a few hours searching my old mags and National Dragsters and was unable to find a list of class winners and runner ups. I'm fairly sure that was the class final. I do remember Vaubel's car was a good runner. Remember, that was 42 rears ago. I'm lucky to still be here to try and remember.
Well...start throwing out some ideas. It will be tough to come up with anything other than an appearance rule as when changing engine parts its almost impossable to equalize any standard. The M.A.N.D.R.A. program here on the east coast is a "Bracket" format and that kills it for most guys. Not only that...the collector whores have made everything beyond the reach for most people in the $$$$ department. Not only the $$$$ deal the fact is most of the people who are interested in Jr. stockers are OLD and just like NHRA stock its way to expensive and to much work to campain a combo in a legal class structure. Next question is how many would join in and support something like this?
I dunno tech man where would i find a car? An engine for me really is no prob,already located a 265 and got the intake.Havn't quite found the "right" heads yet.And pulling those correct carbs outta my anus is well to say the least going to be PAINFULL any way you look at it! Actually getting something like this going after that nice piece in the magazine may not be as hard as you think!
Good point about finding the right engine parts. While my delivery has a 355 in it now,I did save a pair of 283's that were going to the scrap yard and a set of "520" heads. The car has the right intake and a set of WCFB's but only because of dumb luck. As you say ,the pricing is nuts on parts so maybe the appearance rule is where it will stop. This thread is very informative and frankly I can't wait to see what gets posted and a couple of times a day at that. Thanks very much. Junior Stockers rule.
Everybody remembers having an opportunity to do something that they did not take. Right now I am remembering way back to about 1974 when I was Service Manager for Harold Ramsey. One of the guys in the shop told me that he had an intake and carbs (WCFB's) that he was not going to use. he said "You can have them for what I paid, $65." Don't I wish I had made that purchase!! I wonder if he still has them?
Thank you for the picture. This picture was taken at the 1963 Winternationals not 1964 Winternationals. Note the flagman on the right side. The 63 Winters was the last national meet run without the Christmas tree. Ron Roger is listed as the class winner, he is the near car in the picture. Irwin Thaler is in the #677 car. In post 2781 page 140 Irwin says "we won the Winternationals. I suspect there was a technical dq that was not picked up in the results
If you notice there was no H/S winner listed. I won in a 1956 Chevy and was DQ for oversize rear tires
Perhaps rules could allow for the proper displacement with late model parts. For example, a .020 over 305 block with a 3" crank will produce a 265+, and a 307 has the same bore as a 283. Admittedly the 307 will be harder to find than a 305. At one point the 520 heads were made legal for the 265's so it would not be unreasonable to allow a small valve Dart replacement head on both engines. Limit the carb to original CFM and watch for guys to start researching the best combo's. Just like the old days!
JACK (worrell) only paid $35.00.for his 50 OLDS.wagon..also looking for write-up on 1970 awards banquet DIV-1 thanks JAKE
Yea, A lot of guys didn't realize how quickly those seven inchers grew to 7 1/4". Guys were tossed for just about any fraction OVER seven inches. I've posted this shot (as a smaller image file) before, but it's always worth another peek! Here's Tony Pizzi getting a last-minute 'trim' @ the 1971 Spring Englishtown points meet. I seem to recall they were using a very-agressive "Vixen" body file. AndTony sure had those rear wheels spinning! By the way, we know that's Tony at the controls, looking characteristically dapper, resplendent in his very-chic patriotically-striped shirt, but so far no one has identified his (courageous) tire-trimming crewman.
This was even before the 7" rule. I has a set of 670-15 Caslers I just bought. This was only my second race ever. According to the rules they could only be 5 I/2" wide. If I has bought of 950-14s they could have been 7' wide and a shorter tire. That was the last time they caught me.
A "NEW" Junior Stocker class would be cool. But, no matter how it happens, it's going to COST; that's just how it is these days. What I would propose, in light of impossible/prohibitive parts availability, is to permit newer blocks/heads using the stock type cams, carbs, and such. Limit the class to single 4 barrels, point distributors, the stock rear ends, and set a limit on tire size. Total CID to weight, just like it was. Say take a STOCK 305 short block with 601 heads, with a 56 style cam and carb, point distributor, late model Glide (NO TRANS-BRAKES) or Saginaw 3-speed, narrow slicks, no more than a 4.88 gear. Basically, do what the hobby roundy-rounders do with making all the cars the same. 265's or 283's with a 305 engine, 273 Mopars using a 318, 260's and 289 Fords using the 302, that sort of thing. Going to be hard for the Olds and Pont guys, but some of those engines were pretty big for the day; as were their cars. Keep everything as low buck as possible; again, like the roundy-rounders with their "claimer" engines; do the same thing, lay claim to/or buy outright a competitors engine. Just my thoughts./ Butch/56sedandelivery.
............so for the cams ,for instance, might the Stocker legal cams like Lunati does be legal or would it have to be an actual over the OEM parts counter cam ?? Just thinking is all...........
Next question is who are you/we going to talk into running a deal like this??? and at what tracks?? What about tech/tear down? Thats what makes it tough on us old guys. CAMS....been there and done that. OEM cams are next to impossable to enforce. IHRA had to go to "Blue Printed" cams that check on duration, overlap, and lift not to mention spring pressures for pure stock. Not only that where are you going to find people that know how to check a cam. There are not many around today who can do it. I can do it as Greg X tought me how back in 1973 but no way would I do that stuff again. Its very time consuming. Thats why NHRA and IHRA only check lift. IHRA is supposed to do it on thier "PURE STOCKERS" that run in the regular stock elim. but since I left 8 years ago they have no one to do it so it never gets done, Must be the "HONOR" system.....lol. Food for thought and all good ideas but lets be realistic. They way MANDRA and NETO run thier races is a smarter deal but they let thier program "get away" with hood scoops and late model wheels and oversized tires that just dont look correct for the era. Plus its just BRACKET racing ! Since 7 inch tires are no longer being made limit the tire size to 9 X 28 or 29.5 tire size. OEM rear housings are NOT going to stay in one piece and you can not see the rear anyway unless you get down on your hands and knees to look so I say allow the stronger rears such as 8 3/4, 9" Ford, 12 bolts in any car if the racer should desire. The Xternal LOOK must and should be enforced. OK....anyone else????? Gezzzz, Im old. I forgot about posting this back about a zillion pages ago....LOL.
Perhaps stronger rears would be acceptable, the idea I was pushing with the late model Glides and allowing Saginaw 3-speeds, was a strenth and availability issue also. BUT, STOCK front and rear BASIC suspensions; no 4 links, coil overs, slider setups, and NO grafting of late model front clips ( many tri-fives have already gone this route). Traction bars, lift kits, shocks, and that sort of thing would be O.K. Also, the engine would have to "look" period. And, NO electronics, other that maybe a lineloc/roll control. I was thinking that setup the way I was thinking would produce mid to low 12.00 times. My 56 Sedan Delivery is already setup somewhat similar, except for the current 4-speed and 327 engine. I agree on the tire size 9.0 X 29.5. The idea of a "claimer" type engine would be to "further" the honor system, and to keep costs down. Who wants to have a $5000.00 engine taken from them for $150.00? These cars were colorful, and really stood out in their day, spectator appeal. And, they all had "names". Bracket racing, index racing, or all out whoever-gets-there-first-wins, it's all drag racing. Butch/56sedandelivery.
This 55 chevrolet was owned by Rocky Martin from annandale virginia this car set the record in L/S and M/S back in the mid 60s Bob cupp from Springfield virginia was dads partner. Thanks to Bob for finding these pictures
I like 56sedandeliverys ideas also x-techmans idea of rear replacement! they seem to be the most cost effective, and possibly the easiest to police, and your right,drag racing no matter how its done is drag racing!
I like the ideas about no suspencion change....as in no Calvert bars, 4-links, etc. Build it as it was in 1971 and earlier. Also NO and HELL NO to electronics of any kind such as 2-steps, trans breaks, T-stops, air or elec shifters, etc. Im ready to put something together.....run it as the NSS deal or??? where and when and with who? Or just try to get an existing program to accept our style and love of Jr. stockers? Any body have an idea?
guys, a deal like this is all bout fun. the eliminators were all on handicaps back in the day based on classes. Why not make appearance rules the important part and race on a dial your own basis???? Lets face it the 60's are LOOOOOONG GONE!!!!!! Lets make it a fun deal that everyone can play in. That's what we do with the East Coast Gassers. Make them look right and have fun. Not the 60's in the purest form but I don't think we will ever have enough cars to support that in any form.
Just curious here. Were the cast iron Powerglides being used here, or had NHRA superceeded them and allowed the aluminum Powerglide to be used? Butch/56sedandelivery.
Tranny availability could be a problem i have trannies but none of the old stuff at all. i grew up in the turbo 350/400 4 spd and maybe an aluminum PG years,thats what i have on hand.
Cast iron powerglides were required in 55-57 chev passenger cars. Aluminum P.G's were allowed in Corvettes 56 and up as replacements because they were bolt in units meaning there was a cross member ( not so on 55-57 cars )Aluminum PG's were also allowed in 58 to 62 passenger cars. The Aluminum PG was the standard automatic starting in 62 with a 327 or larger engine...
Ok Dom, I'm in! I'll try to post if I can do this hi-tech stuff. I think the Chevy John James ran in Div.1 was a '66 Biscayne, 427-435. The best times....Tom Larson
This old wgn may have belonged to Ernie Sanchez of Toppenish Washington --Ernie also raced a 62 Pontiac stocker in the Northwest
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