I installed a top on my 32 roadster 11-12 years back. As well as had some help on getting the big flat top panel nice and tight from the upholstery guy who did the interior. A few days back I took it loose so I could chop the center oak bow down a bit and get away - at least a little bit - from the Uncle Daniel look it had. Along with tightening the sagging top material a bit. When the upholstery guy took the top loose it he used 1/4" x 3/8" 20 gage round wire staples when replacing it. Lots of them, but nothing ever came loose and they were fairly easy to remove. (I'd originally used copper carpet tacks supplied by Lebaron-Bonney (where I bought the top kit.) I don't recommend the carpet tack bit. Some of them were a bit loose and it looks like the "copper" tacks were simply plated. They were rusty in areas that got damp - between top material and oak bow. The oak bows and top material were unaffected by the rusty tacks, but still. I bought a staple gun that uses 1/4" wide 1/2" - 1" 18 gage rectangular wire staples. Since the staples are "U" shaped the round and rectangular bit I'm talking about pertains to the wire shape. Seems like the flat shape at the top would hold the material better than the smaller gage round wire shape. So I'm wondering what gage staples the upholstery guys use? As well as, do the "Hide-Em" strips come in widths wider than 1/2" (after closing)? L-B supplied the Hide-Em strips in their very nice and easy to install top kit. The top is black cloth, I believe they call it Haartz cloth. I haven't checked, but would Hide-Em strips be something that upholstery shops have in stock? This particular Hide-Em strip I'm talking about is made from the same cloth as the top material. I have seen vinyl Hide-Em strips in different colors and they seem to be fairly wide, but the vinyl stips wouldn't look right on the 32. When I pulled the original Hide-Em strip I saw where the upholstery guy trimmed the main top material very close to the staples. I'm a bit amazed that the staples didn't pull out in that area. Curious if there is a one piece trimming tool similar to what seamstresses use when they rip out stitches. A new single edge razor may have been used, but it's a touch worrisome to be cutting the excess on the top material with the back panel just below. It looks like a razor may be fairly safe to use - safety meaning safety to the top material - if you pulled the top panel excess over the staples toward the front of the car and held the blade horizontally. I could swear the three top straps under the top panel that help support it and the middle oak bow went all the way from the back oak bow, across the middle bow and ended at the oak front header. Seems reasonable and would give some added support. Right now, the top straps run all the way on the middle one and the two outer ones only go from rear oak bow to the middle oak bow. I don't remember if I installed long outer straps or if the upholstery guy cut them down. The stamped sheet metal end pieces at the end of the Hide-Em strip will still work ok if I install a new Hide-Em strip the original 1/2" wide, but right now a little longer would be nice. Do they make a longer end piece? The top on the roadster is about 12 years old and has given excellent service. Granted, the roadster's always been garaged except for out of town events, but the top is hanging in there. Kinda surprising that a top designed for about 45 mph can last so long with so many highway miles running 65-80 mph. Add a steady 20 mph headwind with gusts to 35-40 while running 70 mph and the top is hanging in there in airspeeds over 100 mph. Color has been long lasting and I'd say it's present degree of blackness is about what it's always been. So far I'm liking the slightly lower look of the top where it breaks over the middle oak bow. Nothing radical since you can't go too far at this late date. What was interesting was how much excess material there was after the chopping of the middle oak bow and re-tightening the top panel. About 1" everywhere it needed to be trimmed. Granted, not as exciting as a set of new headers or zoomies, just a small part of the hot rod experience and learning a few things about how and why Henry Ford did some of the stuff the way he did....
Interesting post C9. I am at the point of mocking up my top bows on the rpu, and it is crazy how very small changes in the bow positions & heights drastically change the look of the top. And I also have similar questions about the best way to fasten it all to the header too. Here's a little bumpity bump. If you can, post up some pics of the changes you made to the bows, it would be interesting to see before & after changes that it made to the look Dan
All I know is you don't want a top bow directly over your noggin unless you always pull the seat belt real tight...
The shape of Tommy's top in the pic is what I was after. The oak bow wasn't moved much and you may not see much with comparison pics, but I do have some "befores" and I'll try to pop some afters and post this evening. Looks like Tommy's rear oak bow sits lower than mine by a couple inches or so. That's part of the look I was after, but elected to skip lowering the rear bow since I would have had to pull two more cloth panels loose. You're probably aware that running 5-6 lengths of 3/4 ' - 1" masking tape fore and aft over all the bows and down to the cockpit rail - wood or metal - will give you a good feel for how it looks. I don't know how well the flatter tops work out aerodynamically speaking, but a bit of wedge helps. I have seen flat tops that balloon up when running the highways, but my original setup had air pressure holding the top down. A touch less wedge now, but it should still work. Fwiw - one time the right side top clamp - Ford style - came loose and the right side of the top lifted a half inch or so while running the freeway. I pulled down on it, but it wasn't trying to lift real hard. The fix was a couple of - billet - stepped pins JB Welded into the hollow windshield post and drilled for a new style top clamp bolt. A stainless allen bolt was chucked up in the lathe and a 3/16" pin turned on the end. The pin goes into the original windshield post hole and into the billet piece. A locking nut assures that the clamp bolt doesn't back out. The clamp bolt also doubles as a slightly rounded smooth top for the sharp and pointed rolled sheet steel Ford style posts. That done because before I got the the top I used a California Car Cover roadster cockpit cover and without the billet piece it would have torn through in short order. Here's the best advice I can give you on installing your own top; do a little bit every day and that after reading the instructions several times over and ID'ing the parts. Took me five 2 hour days to do the original install. Do yourself a favor and get an air staple gun. And . . . like any gun, keep your finger off the trigger till you're ready to shoot....
An idea of how bad the sag was. After. Side view before. After. Almost a 3/4 view. After. It doesn't look like much of a change. The middle oak bow was slid down the steel piece on the irons that support the bows & top about an inch. Due to the angle, the top in that area only came down about 5/8", but it is a visible change. Double checked with my level and I should have stacked my angle finder on the level to see how many degrees it did change. My guess on the angle change is about 5-8 degrees from rear to middle oak bow. Stance, etc. can be a subtle thing and sometimes it doesn't take much. If I do a new top or a top on the 31 roadster - and living here in the dez it's almost a necessity - I plan to have the rear bow a little lower and probably get the middle bow down an inch or inch and a half over what you originally saw. One nice thing about the 32 top is that it's not vertical like the Model A's and if you cut the rear bow down you'll have a forward tilt to the rear vertical of the top that mimics the good looking 34 tops. You can do some experimenting with the top bows by installing them with electricians tape - after the varnishing - and driving the car so you can check ingress and egress qualities. Be sure and drill pilot holes for the #10 FH stainless sheet metal screws or it's possible you'll end up splitting a bow at the narrow end. I say FH stainless sheet metal screws, but the ones that are slightly rounded on top are much better looking than the truly flat ones....
It's very easy to adjust the height of the rear bow. Just remove the screws that hold it to the irons, slide it where you want it and drill new holes for the screws. It will make the rear curtain lean but that is the look that I wanted. This was a stock height top before I started on it. It is now 2" lower.
Tommy, that lean-forward on the rear panel really looks good. I probably should have gone for it, but the upholstery guy put down a whole lot of staples and I was trying to get things done for Saturday. Geez, it is Saturday....
Yours looks great! I chopped the WS and the old top was very old and not worth saving. Chopping the bows was a lot easier than I expected. Someday I'll bite the bullet and get it covered.
It's nice to have options. Been thinking lately of getting a boot and some (stands?) - boat cleat looking gizmo's - the top lays on when down. I highly recommend the Lebaron-Bonney top kit. Easy install and great people to deal with. Two strong recommendations when you get a top. Get the rear window frame and skip the glass. Glass is overly heavy and stretches the back panel over time. Lexan (trade name for polycarbonate) is an excellent substitute and is on the back-burner project list for the 32. Lexan doesn't scratch easy and the 10-11 year old windwings on the 32 are still clear. This pic about two years old. Get the snap-out, hangs inside rear window. Shown here, pic about ten years old. There's a lot of extra air flow with the rear window unsnapped. Makes a big difference and it's similar to running sans top, but with shade. I just opened my back window for the first time this year - then we had the first monsoon rain - not much - of the season. Here's a pic of the window hung up on the inside. You'll still lose your ball cap if a side wind hits, but you've probably learned the reactions for that running without a top.
I found a mail slot back curtain window with perfectly round ends at Hershey. I liked it because it was different. The guy had a pile of assorted used rear curtains from an old top shop. Later in the day I see the same mail slot with the round ends for 250. I asked what was so special about it and he said it is from a 1950s Jaguar XK 120 . He asked what did you pay for the one in your hand? I said 40 bucks. My sport coupe has the tilt in rear flap. Cool if you have people in the rumble seat but I plan to eliminate it on the roadster.
Good looking mail slot window. Mine's a bit larger, but difficult to see out of so most of the backing up bit is done with mirrors. My rear window frame is an L-B item. Since the Jag window is so costly and small....
Very helpful info-the end result came out really good! i bet the zip up rear window eliminates some wind buffeting too Dan
A taut top stops a lot of the canvas flapping stuff. Far as wind buffeting goes, it does seem to calm things down a bit, but the side winds seem to be a little stronger so it's sorta even-up. What's really weird is when the top is off, the exhaust note is quieter....
You may be able to get stainless steel staples for your stapler. I can only get 3/8" for my BEA, but I use them for tops and marine work. Hidem comes in two types. The type used for a lot of marine work is usually vinyl and you staple it down between two cording edges in the middle. I've never seen it in Hartz cloth. The type usually seen on the rear bow of automotive tops is called "wire hidem". It is stapled down and then folded over to cover the staples. It has a very fine wire woven into it that you are bending over and keeps it in place. The stainless spears cover the ends. It comes in pretty much any material that tops can be made from. You should be able to get it from a top company or I know LB has it. It is slightly wider than 1/2" when done. Your top is looking good, especially for it's age.
That makes sense. I have seen a lot of tops with straps running front to back under the top material that probably help the flapping too. I never thought about the side wind getting worse when the back window area was unzipped & rolled up, but that makes sense too. And now you really have me worried..... I don't need my exhaust to sound any louder!
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