So my flathead's not stuck.....now what??

Might want to have the EMT's on standby also

 

now you're just tryin' to scare me.

are there any HAMB alliance vendors that sell valves and lifters??

 

Flathead valves are a SPORT til you are down one quart...after that, let your wife make the decisions. Unless she doesn't like you.
On the rebuild...another point of complete teardown and lots of thought is that the 221 (I'm ***uming) is a great deal if you can put it on the road for just a good valve job. Once you are looking at total overhaul, though, maybe the dollars would be better placed in a 99 or 59 block built out to 255-276. Get the whole engine laid out, discard nothing, then figure out the possibilities. Just from look of valley, I am hoping lower end will be looking good.

 

Hope she doesn't mind some filthy swearing . . . seems to be mandatory to all my tear downs! I have the PLOMB valve bar - it is a high quality piece (forged steel) and is nice and long. The stronger and longer the better (that's what she said ).

In all fairness to the problem, once you decide you really don't give a **** about those old valves and split guides, then the problem becomes a whole lot easier. Cutting torches, plasma cutters, bolt cutters - all kinds of brutal methods come into play (but they work!).

Once you have it torn down, hot-tanked and magnafluxed, then get back to us and we'll give you 100 opinions as to what you should build it to. Actually we have a really good crew of flatheaders here on the HAMB - we actually are in general agreement more than not (hard to believe with flatheads). I'd pickup a couple of the good flathead rebuild books - there are 3 - 4 that are really good.

 

the car is a '40, but the motor is a 59AB.............so I'm kind of excited to see what's inside of it. The previous owner didn't know about the internals, but he thought that the original owner who put in the 59ab, did some "work" to the motor. At first I thought maybe the motor was rebuilt using 59ab heads, but the guy I bought it from told me that it had the 100 horse motor.

 

I was half looking for some flathead books in Iola this weekend, I p***ed on a few, because I didn't know who to trust....any suggestions?

 

Ron Holleran's book is the best single one still...I think you can still order it somewhere on Fordbarn. Tex Smith is good...it's an anthology, so be prepared to get differeing opinions on things, just like here!
Ford 1937-49 engine rebuild manual is excellent, available online somewhere and in paper repro, originals are still common.
Actually---search Ford Books on here! Too many is usually about right.

 

Bruce 7 I must have been typing at the same time!!!!!!~

Go on e-bay and search for a Ford "Repair Manual" Ford Mercury & Truck, V-8 Engines, 1937 to 1946 or 1948". Usually available for $15 to $20. Good original Ford info there not hop-up. For hop-up look for Frank Oddo's "Ford Flathead V-8 Builders Handbook". Good pic's there and good hop-up info. Prolly available through Barnes and Noble but don't know for sure.

Jim

 

Books make exellent decorations too!!!

Besides hot tanking the motor, is there another good way to clean out the ports? A lot of the grime in the pictures is from the pb blaster.

I'm still half wishing for a quick and easy fix.

 

If engine is totally apart, top end can be derusted anyway that works for you...sandpaper, naval jelley, wire brush, ball type hone shoved through ports! Seats will likely be OK without much ado. Outside of engine looks rusty...mostly an aesthetic problem. Might be worth just tanking it and getting it all clean and painted. I'm just setting up home hot tank after being without for several years. If you can get a 55 gallon drum and a heater for it, you can tank on your own...chemical cost me somewhere aroung $80 bucks, but needs heat to work well. A real luxury...

 

Got any vacant houses next door???? Any neighbors that would like to swap houses????

I think you need a new neighbor.

 

The hot tank is an excellent home for annoying neighbors...in 2 weeks, you just fish out the tooth fillings, which have surprising s**** value.
Goodson's and industrial supply places sell 2 grades of hot tank powder stuff...one which I have used, the mild one, removes all the filth plus paint very effectively, and is safe for aluminum, zinc, and whatever.
The fiercer stuff is only safe for ferrous stuff, and is able to remove rust...I have that now, have not fired the rig up yet with it. Both require a heater...the mild stuff was worthless cold, ferociously effective at the 110 or so the tank produces. Will see about the killer stuff.
I bought the whole mess,new barreel with heat and powder, for $400 from a company that has since disappeared. It was easy to justify when I started thinking about how much time I had spent over buckets of gasoline brushing at filth...
I hope the hotter solution works as planned. Too much of the powder of either sort is like $75...I think you can build a rig with purpose-made barrel heaters or quite possibly with the electrodes from an home water heater.

 

At a generating station I worked at we used to have a tank about 4 feet wide, 12 feet long and 4 feet deep with steam coils in it. Used a dry powder called Oakite with water. Heated the blend with steam and would strip metal parts to like new condition. I was working with my son building his F-100 and stripped tailgate, doors, and all 4 fenders. Did a remarkable job!

 

No word today must be hospitalized! I think if he decides to hot tank it he will have to remove the cam bearings right? That will require another tool he prolly doesn't have and more expense.

 

Go to Goodson, http://www.goodson.com/ , and search hot tank to see the safe solution I have used and the dangerous solution (contains lye and detegent, I think) I have now but haven't fired up yet.
D-AL50, D-C125...
His block looks to be mostly nice, probably fresh rebuild, inside but pretty rusty outside.
I have a KRW puller for cam bearings that slides them out slicker'n a teflon weasel ready for reuse. I THINK I checked once and found that a cheap SBC only cam bearing driver will just catch a flathead bearing and could be used with care, though I don't like the whole idea of pounding on the bearings either way.
If block is not in need of machining, investing in some solution might be best way to get outside and ports looking better. Probably could be used in a washtup over a pan of charcoal...but there must be some good heaters out there that could be dropped into the barrel or inserted via the 2" pipe threads. A hot tank is a much finer home improvement than a microwave or a TV...and those detergent based solutions don't stink. Mild one can legally be poured down the drain, I think fierce one can be if neutralized with vinegar first...but I'd go for a good drain cleaning! In the ba*****t in winter, the heat just helps heat the house, too.

 

Ok........so I drank beer and stared down the lifters and valves last night....I'm ordering a valve bar today...........the "pickle bar", I found it here: http://www.vanpeltsales.com/FH_web/flathead_valveguidebar.htm

 

Now that you have them scared of yah . . . time to take advantage of them and yank em' before they wise up and hunker down in their guide holes . . . . only to require substantial force to remove . . .

 

haha. So that bar will compress the spring, and remove the "horseshoe" clip. What do I need to drive out the valve guides?

 

The bar also has to latch onto the slot near bottom of guides and pull guide down enough to get the keeper out of the pocket in block. This is the fun part. Next, you get to force guide up and out. Many people enjoying this experience for the first time have actually learned new words from themselves!

 

get in touch with Eric "VAPHEAD" at Riley Automotive. I rebuilt my 59L last summer and bought most of my stuff through him. Excellent service.

 

What's the best way to force the guide up? Is there some magic fairy "flathead" dust someone can send me? Maybe some salt from Bonneville, or a vial of Vern Tardel's blood????

 

No: The idea is that the fork of the bar will GRAB the two little slots in the bottom of the guide, then when you apply m***ive force . . . hopefully the guide can be pulled down so you can remove the horseshoe clip. Then, you try to use the same dang valve bar to lay against the bottom of the guide and push it back up and out of the port (applying force the opposite direction from before).

Given that you have mushroom valves - you either have to CUT the stems so you can remove the valve heads, springs, etc - valve is in two pieces.. Then you remove the valve and drive the split guides out the bottom. Or - you need the guide to slide back up the guide hole so you can remove the whole ***embly out the top (as noted above).

 

I was getting confused on the guides. I forgot for a minute that I had the "harder" valve to remove with the mushroom tip. More than likely I'll be drivin' it down with a socket.

Although, I do think that a vial of Vern Tardel's blood, maybe even a drop, would act much like holy water and demons.........and the valves would remove themselves from the vacinty and search for an empty flathead to take over.

 

Down, then up with bar is shop manual way...violence/cutting is a big help if parts are s**** for sure, and of course there are a million special aftermarket tools which can make life easy. No one makes a GOOD repro driver now, basically a forged offset punch for driving guide down. KD again the best old one. The few repros are just bent rod with a groove, not nearly strong enough to help.

 

I guess you're talking about the split guides? The only way you're going to be able to drive them down with a socket is if you cut the valve stems, pulled the pieces out --> valve head out the top, valve stem/retainer/spring out the bottom (from the valley). Then all you have left is the guide - then drive it out (don't even care about the horseshoe clip in this method). You should change your valve setup anyway to the late ones - so HACK AWAY!

 

That sounds like a plan to me!

 

What shop do you have in mind for doing the engine work? I'd suggest K&B in Marshfield... right down the road from you. they work on every sort of engine around...farm, cl***ic, pullers, stock cars, hot rods, forklifts, lawn and garden, etc. They did my Hemi and also the 327 giveaway engine for the Shakedown.

If you need a flattie valve tool let me know tonite... I'll be at K&B tomorrow and I can loan you one.

 

I need the flattie valve tool and also the operator/cusser to go with it.

 

I'm at home and don't have the link here but in the morning I'll edit this and post a link to the Ford 9N tractor site that shows the tools and their use.

Yep that's it mnfalcon.! (next post)

Thank you,

Jim

 

http://www.ntractorclub.com/howtos/pdfs/K-D_valve_service_bulletin.pdf