just looked at a 50 ford convert that has just about evey patch panel ems sells brazed on it. he overlapped them buy about 1/4" at the braze joint. SO....will the paint stick is there a trick? do you think the panels could be saved, heat up the brass take them off and grind off the brass and welded back on? seems like a pain in the ass but its 100% compete overdrive car with some spare parts grille nos door etc. and the price is right 4500.00
Many will tell you that you can't fill over brass. They are wrong It's not the brass it's the flux. As long as it's cleaned completely it's fine. I don't use it often, but when I do I sand blast the area after grinding, lightly grind again, then fill. However lapped joints, brass or welded can show ghost lines due to expension in the sun. I'd have as much issue with MIG welded overlaps. Brass is slightly more prone to ghost lines. If you take them off heat, heat, then wire brush. If it were me I'd pass, or replace all the patches. I'd cut above them where I could. Removing brass is a pain in the ass, and involves enough heat to cause some major warpage problems. You will probably ruin most if not all the patch panels
This is kind of off your topic, but $4500 sounds high, honestly, for a car that still needs that much work, unless there is a ton of spare and NOS parts with it. I remember an eBay auction a while back where you could have had two, one decent solid one, and one rustier one, for about $2500. I had a basket case and I couldn't even get anyone interested in it, which is what got me to looking and it appeared to me that for $1500 you could get a pretty decent and more or less complete starter project 49-51 ragtop, I found that on quite a few occasions. The OD trans is a plus, but they can be had, going around $300 I think last I looked.
To do it right, take off all of the patches and start over. Sounds like there are asking more than what it's probably worth. They might have that much it it though.
My old '32 Ford had a giant brass hunk brazzed on the left quarter panal. I didn't know it for the first 10 years I owned it until taking it to bare metal for a repaint. I think somebody used brass like other people use bondo.
I agree with Tinbender the problem is not the brazing it is the fact that they are a lapjoint not only will they show up as ghost lines they are a breeding ground for rust between the two panels. They need to be redone. Maybe use that to get a better deal on the car.
bad deal at that price, but removng the braze is gonna be a big chore. 1. If you need to cut off one of thesed brazed panels and it can not be repaired. Then is there enongh of the old sheet metal to meet up with a new patch panel from use (ems) if not then a patch will have to be fab'd from the newer ems panel to the oem body. 2 although brazing was popular before mig welder came about so if it is a good job then it could be chemically nutralized and painted and deal with the problem down the road. It all dpends on if you want a cool drver or a show car
""just about evey patch panel ems sells brazed on it."" ""and the price is right 4500.00 "" sounds like your $4500.00 vert could be a $7,000 or $8,000.00 car by the time you get it in primer and done right and ready for real paint if you don't do your own work. or you could just sling mud over the mess and hope for the best. I'd advise not spending too much on paint.
I've never found a brazed panel that I didn't have to pull out because it failed. I'm not doubting its doable, but I wouldn't buy a car that someone else brazed panels into. But thats beside the point, a lapped joint will fail. Period.
what a shame lapped panels. panel replacement is a nightmare for me and has voided more than one car purchase for me. that is usually a beacon for other substandard work in other areas.
Hey, $4500.00 for a drop top shoe???? Probably not bad money "if " that project were on the west coast! As for brazed patch panels, if you're gonna loose sleep over the brass, remove the patches with a torch and alota care. Count on doing some straighting of the patch panels as the heat will warp them, some. Grind every bit of the brass from them and the parent metal. Steel that has been brazed can not be welded back together with steel filler rod very well. As for the 1/4'' joggle in the lap seam, I'd hammer, on dolly, and straighten the patch to parent metal join and but weld them in. There will be alot of extra labor, here, but if it's a complete droptop shoe you may oneday laugh all the way to the bank! Swankey Devils C.C. "Spending A Nation Into Generational Debt Is Not An Act Of Compassion!"
Nobody mentioned lead over the joint. Clean it, tin it, lead it. Should last a good 10-12yrs, maybe more.
When I first learned to do custom bodywork, the guy I learned from did all his work in brass. I didn't know anything else, for many years. I built my whole 55 Old in brass, and it still looks good, 26 years later. As long as the brass is cleaned very well, if the repairs were done nicely, I wouldn't go crazy changing the patch panels, esp. if not building a showcar. When I redid an old cusotm my boss built in the 80's, I left a lot of the brazed panels in place. I did cut some out, that were overlapped, or rusted through, but the good ones I left...though I DID seal up the brass with epoxy primer, before putting bodyffiller over it. The flux will cause problems with putting filler over brass, but I believe that the hardener in bondo evenually oxidises the brass, which caused the adhesion of the filler to fail. so isolating them with epoxy would seem a good idea....I've also heard that putting "tin" over brass will also effectively isolate it. Tinning, as in the first step to doing leadwork. As for the overlapped panels...poor way to repair something, but it will hold up for a long while, if you seal up the overlap inside, so it can't start corroding from water/junk laying in between the panels.
This is how a lot of customizing was done in the old days. Take a look at the "how-to" stories in the little books. Many of the customs were built by brazing, not welding, the work into place. Then, as HIGHLANDER pointed out, carefully cleaned to remove the flux - sometimes with a drill bit, then wire brush - then tinned and leaded. Of course, the brazing had to be done right in the first place for this technique to be successful... If I was given the opportunity you've got, I'd run...not walk...in the opposet direction. Too much risk for my taste. Good luck making a decision...
Think about all the double or overlap panels in a car , door skins , truck lids , hoods roof etc, grind the filler out , sand blast the brass seam & remud , with a 1/4 overlap their is probably brass in the overlap anyway, unless the seam has swelled it will be fine
This is slightly off the track of this thread, but because I recently worked on a poorly brazed repair I thought it was worth posting. I cut out a brazed repair on a Model A roadster. Real nasty brazing right on the beltline. It held for years, but the panel was not right. Luckily I was able to find an original quarter with lots of rust in the lowers to remove a patch from. I cut it out and gas welded (mild steel rod) the patch in. Finished with a file and it looked good. I would not build up from such a rough foundation.
i agree with tinbender and the others that its the flux, not the brass to worry about, just like with lead, gota get it all out. in fact both are just about the same as solder. mercedes still brazes their rear body panel seams, and there are no problems there. i prefer to remove brass , but if ya wanna keep it, ive used products like usc's all metal to seal over it. back in the early 70's brass was all we used, even on chops, lol skull
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