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Turning a v8 into a twostroke.....

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by mctommy, Sep 22, 2008.

  1. sik_kreations
    Joined: Jul 14, 2008
    Posts: 436

    sik_kreations
    Member


    back then maybe, now, and 25+ years back, no.
     
  2. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,487

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    :) I didn't say nothing...... Dont know a thing about it.
    [shhhh... Your a pretty good guesser]

    Notice the early 80's clothing and hair styles....
    Do a google on Stan Meyer... Try to find the patents he was [supposedly] issued. He couldn't keep his mouth shut and he vanished off the face of the earth along with his car, his equipment, all his research... And what was to heavy for the MIB's to carry off got burned to the ground.
    Look closely at the design, when the piston moves forward to compress the charge, it draws the next batch of air [for the next combustion process] in behind the piston. Then when the piston moves down the bore, it compresses the air behind it. When the piston reaches the bottom of the bore, and exposes the intake port, it injects compressed air into the cylinder. The compressed air does 2 things. First, it pushes ALL of the exhaust gas out the exhaust valve, secondly, it super-charges the incomming air. In effect, free supercharging.

    In addition, the single rod opposed layout transfers 99% of the energy between opposing pistons, compared to 33% for conventional reciprocating rod layouts [V-style engines] and 66% for reciprocating boxter engines.

    There's no cylinder wall side loading which means much less wear.

    In the ultimate design, the yoke was replaced with a roller bearing slider.

    Believe me when I say that this engine has serious potential to revolutionize the automotive industry.

    On a similar note, have a look at the 2 stroke rotary. It's actually an Atkinson cycle engine, but you have to look very closely to see the atkinson cycle. Pretty slick stuff.
    [​IMG]
     
  3. I was going to say,
    "holy crap Smokeys back from the dead"!
     
  4. rg171352
    Joined: Oct 24, 2007
    Posts: 508

    rg171352
    Member
    from New York

    If you call comp cams and ask them about turning an SBC into a 2 stroke motor you will get a good laugh after a brief pause. Don't ask me why I know this....

    I thought this was a wonderful idea, and I spent way too much time thinking about it. It took 4 years to convince myself that it was a bad idea. I guess on my part I just wanted to see the capabilities of a 2 stroke in a car, but as someone said you could just use an outboard powerhead.

    My father told me about a teacher at the OMC training school who had an outboard powered racecar, but I don't remember all of the details.
     
  5. The idea of turning an automotive V8 into a 2 stroke is inovative, fun and challenging. No reason it couldn't be done, but don't expect the idea to be revolutionary. It would be a good experiment in design and manfacturing using mostly well-founded ideas and off the shelf parts.
     
  6. I see no evidence that any of his claims are true. Independent verification of facts and peer review of findings and conclusions are the basis of science. Anything less is pseudoscience.

    This doesn't look any different than a normal 2 stroke, and the mechanism efficacy looks about the same as any other. Again, I'm not seeing any evidence here to indicate the advantage of this design.

    By not believing in things I am never disappointed when those things turn out not to be true. I might take a few things as supposition, but only on the basis of good evidence.
     
  7. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 681

    llonning
    Member

  8. llonning
    Joined: Nov 17, 2007
    Posts: 681

    llonning
    Member

    Damn! Check out www.shindaiwa.com and look for the C4 engine. Combines 2 and 4 cycle tech.
     
  9. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,790

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    and how long has the expansion chamber been around? hmmmm... seems to be 40+ years that I know of.... kind of a moot point really

    But we're talking 2 strokes and the piston port engines are 2 strokes. I guess a general "two strokes don't make vacuum" should be qualified then.
    piston port two strokes are some of the most powerful engines per displacement out there. over 400 hp/liter normally aspirated is pretty much the norm GP bikes.
     
  10. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,130

    metalshapes
    Member


    Where can I read more about this Thing?

    I think its interesting...
     
  11. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,487

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    That is the ULTIMATE anti-hamb engine...... It's used in the Toyota Prius :eek: [which probably explains why nobody here has ever seen one. LOL]

    Yea, yea... I know.... But still, gotta give em 'props for the innovation and technology.
     
  12. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,487

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Wow, can you believe we got over 100 replies outs this post? And it's still going!
     
  13. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,130

    metalshapes
    Member


    Allright...
    Its in a Piece of Shit Car.


    But I still think its interesting...:D
     
  14. You're exactly right on a gas burner motorcycle/Evinrude/chain saw small two stroke type of application. A Diesel Engine doesn't have a throttle valve, only an "open" air inlet. A two stroke gas burner uses the reed valve to control crankcase air movement. The two stroke diesel only uses the piston to cover the air inlet ports in each cylinder. For the most part, when the air ports are open, the exhaust valves are open allowing the supercharger to push out spent fuel and air, along with shoving in a fresh charge. I'm sure some of the guys here played with two strokers in quarter midgets or whatever, and modified ports with grinders and epoxy to change rpm ranges and power building characteristics.
    How much cooling capacity would you lose if you cut ports into the bottom of of the cylinder(s) on an a flathead or overhead valve engine to allow a fuel/air gasoline mixture to be shoved in from the top by a supercharger, using the valves and timing to control the inlet charge and shoving the exhaust out of the bottom or the engine? This is completely opposite of how Detroit Diesel uses the air charge.
    All this is fun to think about and play with, but in diesel and gas burner applications they have for the most part have been legislated out. Detroit Diesel tied in with Penske and others to come up with their four stroke diesels to keep the company alive. Small engine applications are heading the same direction.
     
  15. metalshapes
    Joined: Nov 18, 2002
    Posts: 11,130

    metalshapes
    Member

    I've done a bit more digging, and it looks like it is the D.A.R.T Rotary invented by Libralato Ruggero of Italy.

    Diesel Asymmetric Rotary Technology,

    and H.A.R.T. for Hydrogen Asymmetric Rotary technology.


    As far as I can tell, still an Experimental Engine, and not in a Production Vehicle yet.

    But I could be wrong about that...


     
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2008
  16. James D
    Joined: Feb 8, 2007
    Posts: 4,944

    James D
    Member

    That is really damn clever! I notice it looks like it might be air cooled.
    Wonder what it sounds like?
     
  17. tomslik
    Joined: Mar 3, 2001
    Posts: 2,161

    tomslik
    Member


    not in any of the prius' I'VE worked on.
    they still got a 4cyl+killer batteries....
     
  18. Pir8Darryl
    Joined: Jan 9, 2008
    Posts: 2,487

    Pir8Darryl
    Member

    Not yet.... Sorry bout that. I should have said it was developed for the prius. There's a chance it may come in next years Chevy Volt also. Cant say for sure because I'v been "out of the loop" with GM for a while, but while I was still there, that engine was being done as a joint venture between GM and Toyota for use in a hybrid application. Toyota "took it over" right before I left. It has some limitations, but it's extremely simple... And for the most part, disposable once it breaks.
     
  19. skwurl
    Joined: Aug 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,620

    skwurl
    Member

    I saw a video on youtube about a Mighty engine. It was really smal and made a stupid amount of torque an horsepower at idle. They said the engine would be the size of a coffee can and would power a car no problem. I just did a search on it. didnt see it again. It supposedly mad e800 ft/lb of torque at idle. Then one thing I notice was its tiny crankshaft. The only thing I could think of would be the crank shearing off of it. Could have bee some kind of a hoax. anyone else heard of it?
     
  20. zman
    Joined: Apr 2, 2001
    Posts: 16,790

    zman
    Member
    from Garner, NC

    I have some at the shop that have no reed valves, just pure piston port, and let's not forget the rotary valve engines as well.... I <3 2 strokes.... but not really diesels.:p
     
  21. sik_kreations
    Joined: Jul 14, 2008
    Posts: 436

    sik_kreations
    Member

    gotta love the 2smokes!
     
  22. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    If you look at old WW1 movies and see the Gnome-Lerone engines on some of the old Allied planes you can see that the whole engine rotates. The crank is stationary. The prop bolts to the crankcase and turns with the engine. These engines are 2 stroke. The exhaust is by convential poppet valve cam operated. I don't know how the intake worked. Germany used these engines on it's Golieth cargo plane during WW2
     
  23. skwurl
    Joined: Aug 25, 2008
    Posts: 1,620

    skwurl
    Member

    Saw these in the Air and Space museum in D.C. They stopped using them because the centrifucal force of the engine spinning twisted them into the ground cos they could only turn well one way. Real neat to see up close.
     
  24. lostforawhile
    Joined: Mar 23, 2008
    Posts: 4,159

    lostforawhile
    Member

    the fuel cell car is cool,but it's not some magic invention like they say,fuel cells have been around for a long time, nothing new. it's basic science.
     
  25. stealthcruiser
    Joined: Dec 24, 2002
    Posts: 3,750

    stealthcruiser
    Member



    No shit?:eek:

    I truly thought those were a 4 stroke!

    I have only researched them to the extent of "eye fu%&in' them.
     
  26. RichFox
    Joined: Dec 3, 2006
    Posts: 10,020

    RichFox
    Member Emeritus

    You can see the fabrcated transfer tube from the crankcase to the cylinders. Not sure how they isolated each cylinder and it's part of the crankcase
     
  27. Zig Zag Wanderer
    Joined: Jul 6, 2007
    Posts: 563

    Zig Zag Wanderer
    Member

    i am not aware of a video or even a running prototype yet, but i think you are referring to the "power-ring" 30-cylinder engine that Jocko Johnson (of Jocko's Porting Service and Jockoliner fame) was developing
     
  28. fullhouse296
    Joined: Jan 30, 2009
    Posts: 404

    fullhouse296
    Member
    from Australia

    Mercury two stroke v8 outboard motors were very short lived animals .they are now usually only seen , stuffed under old work benches as curiosity items .Seems ,they lacked something in the oiling dept and would terminally shit themselves.Also ,forget about parts availability or any semblence of real world prices !
     
  29. Having driven several two-stroke cars got to say not that impressed,
    Yes gasoline two-stokes can be tuned to make very high bhp per cube,
    but it's always at the expence of power band width,

    There was a guy in the UK who cut ports through the barrels of his triumph twin,
    used all the valves as exhausts and a blower ( effectively a 'Uni-flow' ) on the strip,
    was reasonably quick, but was no great leap forward.
    Cutting ports through the water jacket of a SBC and getting the water jacket to seal and inner surface good enough to have the rings run over would be a challange,
    the rings would need to be pinned to prevent them rotating and breaking off on the port edge.
    I guess seeing as how you have eight cylinders to play with, another option would be to use 4 of the cylinders as 'crankcase compression' for the other four.

    There seemed to be a number of myths around two strokes,
    high revs are real bad news for most due to the use of rolling element bearings,
    if you want an engine to take high rpm, hydrostatic bearings as fitted to multi-cylinder four strokes are the name of the game ( who can forget Honda's 1960's four stroke racer at 24,000 rpm !)

    Ok SBC does at least come with a reasonable lube system and proper bearings, but I don't see making it in to a two stroke magicaly allowing it to stand any more revs.
    My guess would be that as a two stroke a SBC would make no more HP than a mildly tuned four stoke one and use a lot more fuel ( not to mention make an annoying racket, horrible ).
     
  30. panic
    Joined: Jan 3, 2004
    Posts: 1,450

    panic

    Look closely at the design, when the piston moves forward to compress the charge, it draws the next batch of air [for the next combustion process] in behind the piston. Then when the piston moves down the bore, it compresses the air behind it. When the piston reaches the bottom of the bore, and exposes the intake port, it injects compressed air into the cylinder. The compressed air does 2 things. First, it pushes ALL of the exhaust gas out the exhaust valve, secondly, it super-charges the incomming air. In effect, free supercharging.

    That's called the "two-stroke cycle". It's over 100 years old.
     

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