Hah! I made that mistake early on posting on here. Guess us drag racing guys not being up on the lingo can be dangerous.
So my buddies "run tuff" eliminator 55 Chevy would be considered what under your definitions? Not saying that the clever Mopar guys did not get the weight transfer tricks rolling, but a lot of Shoeboxes as well as other cars followed suit in the 60's and into the 70's with such modifications.
So what would my friends 55 be? As with the Mopars, and even the Lil' Screamer, the rear axle was moved forward to get better weight transfer and the body was modified to accommodate the change. Once again, not starting trouble, just wondering the correct historical term. Back in the 70's it was called "an altered wheel base 55 Chevy" at US 30 dragstrip. But what would the announcer at a drag strip know?
As a follow-up to that post, US 30 was a track in Gary Indiana that closed in the 80's for those who may be from out of state.
This thread has gotten screwed up by personal interpretations put forth as being definitive. By the way, Ramchargers High and Mighty AWB from the 50s.
I'll bet your friends Chevy would be correct in calling it an AWB car. It had fenders, which puts Lil Sceamer into an "altered" class. Your firends Chevy is also probably an "altered" too because of the wheelbase change. BUT, it also would be an AWB car, although AWB is not a class as much as it is a definition of what the Chevy would be. It would be like calling a fuel dragster, a Top Fuel car and also calling it a race car. The class would be "top fuel" while the term "race car" is not a class, but a broad definition of what the vehicle is. Is there a photo posted of your friends Chevy? I'd love to see it, sounds wild...
Sorry, nope....I know its not, as you say a definitive definition, but that not what an AWB car would be considered. In fact, when that car ran, there were no AWB cars running, (and here's where it gets tricky), although the car above has an altered wheelbase, they were not considered as such. Its like ordering a hot dog and be expecting a warm Collie. Although a warm Collie is a hot dog, its not a HOT DOG!!!!!!!!!!!
Your friends Chevy would have run in the Altered Classes...it would NOT be considered an AWB or early funny car! Also by altering the wheel base it is not considered a Gasser either. Read some early 60's drag racing magazines, you're getting the straight poop here....we know of what we speak.(read my profile)
I will try to dig some old pics up and scan them, with the clutch-turbo, a 427, and the AWB, it was a wheelie-machine! They'd run in "Run Tuff" eliminator, a class at the local track. It makes sense what you describe. In current terms, when I hear "altered", I think an NHRA competition eliminator class or a specific SFI chassis spec that is much like a funny car. Try to certfiy the Lil' Screamer today as an altered and the tech guy would shoot you! Once again, great info!
hahaha, I know we sound like a couple of bald guys fighting over a hair brush somethings...but it's all just fun, as its supposed to be...love to see that Chevy!!!
There was never an Altered Wheelbase class in NHRA, AHRA, etc. Mazooma and Maxwell are trying to equate a modification with a particular class and era. In fact the AWB cars were banned by NHRA from A/FX and many later ran at NHRA events I attended as altereds, some even in dragster classes. They became match race and exhibition cars. In essence, trying to equate a particular modification (altered wheelbase) with a particular class and era of cars (A/FX of mid '60s) is just as naive as the newb's who call everything with a straight axle a "gasser". Feel free to keep on believing you know something. P.S. "James Maxwell Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Carlsbad, CA Posts: 431 Re: Altered Wheelbase Picture Thread -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Calling the "High & Mighty" and the #813 cars that had pics posted an AWB car is not correct." --->Only someone who crawled out from under a rock would call Ditmar's Lil' Screamer the #813 car By the way, Ditmar's Lil' Screamer won B/A at the same '65 NHRA Nationals where many of the AWB cars ran in a variety of non-A/FX classes. It so happens in '65 there were 45 cars running in B/Altered and Ditmars won the final round against Dick Brannan's factory-backed Mustang which had its wheelbase altered by the rear wheels being moved 3" forward.
Here is my opinion on the altered wheelbase term and I was going to drag races almost every weekend in '65. The '65 year model Dodges and Plymouths were of course the cars that were so "wildly" altered that the moniker "Funny Car" was born. They were called Altered Wheelbase Cars before they were called Funny Cars. There were only a few of each built, 11 total I believe, by the factory but dozens more built by teams that got one and teams that didn't including Mopar, GM and Ford Motor Company racers. There are 10 pages of great pictures here of about all makes. Mopar offered full size AWB blueprints for Mopar racers to use. If you say "factory" altered wheelbase only a few qualify but if you say awb to me I include any simular car that was altered in '65 or '66, really the only two years it was popular back then or simular cars that have been built lately to again capture that era. Only cars originally manufactured from say '62-66 qualify. No '30s, '40s, '50s cars please. The term for them is "altered" simply because they were originally manufactured before the Funny Car revolution. Here is another good example. In the late '60s "Gassers" fell out of favor with some drag racing fans because of the Funny Car revolution. Some "gasser" teams built new model cars but used the engine/trans combo out of their '30s, '40s cars. They still were classified as "gassers" but were not accepted by their fans and soon went away. '60s model AA/GS gassers just didn't get it. Some became very succesful by converting them to Funny Cars. I accept almost all of the cars on this thread as awb cars because most of these pictures were shot in the mid '60s at the height of the altered wheelbase popularity. By '67 fans (me for one) wanted Funny Cars to look simular to what they drove. Opinions are like assholes and this is just mine.
Goober <script type="text/javascript"> vbmenu_register("postmenu_4302712", true); </script> Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Land O'Penny Parking Meters Posts: 1,132 <!-- icon and title --> Re: Altered Wheelbase Picture Thread <hr style="color: rgb(229, 229, 229); background-color: rgb(229, 229, 229);" size="1"> In essence, trying to equate a particular modification (altered wheelbase) with a particular class and era of cars (A/FX of mid '60s) is just as naive as the newb's who call everything with a straight axle a "gasser". Feel free to keep on believing you know something. Excuse me, Sir, but I do know something. My photos and films have been published in three drag racing books and four drag racing documentries. One book is in publication this summer, written by Steve Magnante who knows a thing or two about AWB cars. In fact, his book is dedicated to the AWB era. You know who he is? I was one of the track photographers at Irwindale when this whole period was in full bloom, soon to die off with the flopper style funnies of 1966. So, yes, I do know something, and I don't appreciate your tone.
Well, I might as well get in here again and get pounded on. Like was said above there was no class for AWB cars in sanctioned drag racing. If you'll look at some of the pictures posted here some of them ran in the fuel dragster class in national events. What I remember (look at my sig line) is that Chrysler got caught changing the wheelbase on some stock type cars around 1963 and the Dodge Charger Exibition cars came out in 1964 and that opened the flood gate to the pre funnycar AWB's. By 1968 the funnycars were just that, not modified stockers or bodies in white. So that would make the AWB era from 64-67 give or take a little. And the AWB cars were based on brand new cars, so AWB cars should be 64-67, right? An AWB 55 Chevy would be in about the same class as the High & Mighty ALTERED (not Gasser, LOL). Not bad company to be in. Since there were no rules, I guess this whole thing is open to any one's interpretation. Larry T
Hey Goob...let's see your credentials, other than quote: "the NHRA events I attended" unquote! Jeez man, check the person's profile before asserting they don't have an idea what they are talking about. Come on Mr. Expert, lets see what ya got!
That is NOT Your Father's Oldsmobile! (Great shots, and a terrible advertising line from the folks that helped kill a once-great division, or at least the ad agency...)
Let's not make this a pissing contest.... Vanderwoude's home-built car ran in altered, dragster, and ultimately A/FX and "exhibition" classes. (Vanderwoude Family Collection)
Mazooma, I'll give you props you were there also. However, you've admitted the term Altered Wheelbase is subject to personal interpretation and you've submitted pics in a thread where it was plainly stated the interest was in AWB "drag cars" of any body style or year. Kudo's on contributing to Magnante's book, but don't be so narrow-minded that the project you're working on is the de facto definition -- for as you said, one doesn't exist. You can take my tone anyway you like, but it's appropriate when somebody has arbitarily set themselves up as the judge on a field for which no real rules exist. Remember, you're the one that started this pissing contest. P.S. I never questioned anybody's background, just their flawed reasoning on this subject. FWIW, I attended every U.S. Nationals from '63 to '78 and spent a day as a 16 year old at Western Dodge watching the Kentucky Colonels AWB car prep for its debut race at the local 1/8 mi. track that night, but this isn't about credentials it's about intelligent reasoning. If you take an obstinate position, then you diminish your own credibility. But, I'm not going to prolong things in this vein. Let's get on with the pics!
hmmm lets see A =alterd meaning changed from what is accepted as normal WB = wheelbase measured distance between the middle of the front and middle of the rear wheels wheels/ axles on a moto vehicle an awb car is ANY car that has had its wheel locations alterd chrysler WAS the first to gian wide noterity for doing alterds but everyone was trying little tricks ever since drag racing began to nake thier cars just a little faster then the next guy thats why the sport grew into what it is today just by definition the famous 65 chrysler awbs arent alterd wheelbases .......... BECAUSE they moved the front and rear wheels a like amount (hence keeping the wheelbase the same) so the tech inspectors didnt immeadiatly catch them cheating dont get me wrong i LOVE the afx cars especailly the chryslers why split hairs over what is or what aint correct they are all BADASS and a part of history that will never be repeated so lets just sit back and enjoy the pics please post more the more unknown privater (local) types the better
I thought that was a little odd sounding...you are right, again...as illustrated by the profile photo of Landy's car, it becomes more obvious. That was my favorite AWB of all time, although I was a Ford SOHC fan...Landy was fearless
The Jalopy Journal
