How much wider is a 351 Cleveland than a 351 Windsor (intake width) and appearance. I have a 1973 stock 351 windsor, and I have a line on a 70 or 71 351 cleveland 2 barrel engine. Both stock engines. Would I be happier with the stock Cleveland or use the Windsor as is, and beef it up down the road. I did a search on the early 2 barrel Cleveland engines and they put up pretty good stock hp and torque numbers. Just would like some imput. Thanks Mark.......
I don't know the width difference but I say go with the Clevo. There was a HUGE thread about the 351s not long ago, do a search. Doc.
Here is the difference between a Windsor & Cleveland. Windsor Length X Width X Height 29" x 25.5" x 29" Weight 525 Lbs, Cleveland 29" x 25" x 27.5" weight 550 lbs. The height measurements are less carb height. Hope this helps, Gasserman
HEY OLDIRON...FIND THE BEST ford man in the house. because fords are notorious for limited parts exchange. iam just saying! just call me pop.
I always liked the Cleveland. I wanted to put one in a 68 Mustang I had way back when. I think the Windsor is cheaper to build up now. You can get some pretty good streetable HP out of it. The Cleveland used to be the way to go but there's so much aftermarket stuff for the Windsors nowadays. The C could be costly to build up.
If you're sticking with stock heads, the Cleveland wins hands down. If your going aftermarket, the Windsor is cheaper. Overall dimensions of a complete engine are about the same, Cleveland is a bit heavier.
clev.are ok but you can make so much hp.with a windser.parts are way cheaper headers are avalable and if you want ci.they have kits to make them more than 450 ci.i like to rev my motors up past 5000 rpms and if you also want to it is so much easer to do with a windser than a cleveland!! have fun!!!
Windsors are dead...Clevelands are on the rise. Ford Motorsports just released a bunch of new Cleveland stuff.
Had 'em both, prefer the Windsor. The Cleveland would be better for a street-strip car, but for a daily driver that you want to play with, the W is cheaper and more reliable. The C is too peaky, and a bit of a dog at low RPM. But they will rev!
Gonna have to buck the trend here. 351w has more bearing area, better oiling system, decent aftermarket heads available. Not to mention cheaper to build. Add the fact you can pass it off as a 289/302 to most unsuspecting folks..... I'm just sayin.
A 70 cleveland is going to have more compression than a 71 C or a 73 W... Do you want more compression? Are you willing to spring the extra $$$ for premium at every fill up? From a bone stock "side by side comparison" standpoint, the cleveland has better breathing heads, canted valve layout [poly, or semi-hemi] compared to the W's wedge design. The cleveland block is slightly stronger, as are the rods and crank. Both use the same bellhousing, and motor mounts. From a performance standpoint, the C will respond much better to traditional low buck hot rodding tricks and tunes. A bone stock bottom end with a street cam, intake, and hot distributor, and the C is ahead of the W... On the other hand, if your going to "beef it up" past a cam/intake swap, the W begins to have advantages... Mostly in the cost and availability of aftermarket performance parts. If your going to build a full boogie thumper, the cleveland is the way to go. So there you have it. It's not so simple a question as "which is better". They are both great engines... It all depends on what you want from it, what your budget is, and what you expect out of it.
Good assessment. The only thing I'd question is whether the '70 Cleveland has any more compression than later Clevelands. According to the chart I have, the '70 2V Cleveland has the same open chambers as the later Seventies Clevelands, and the same as the 351M and 400...but maybe they had pistons with less dish? With a quick search, I can't find any source stating the compression ration on the 2V Clevelands.
As "The Ford V8 Workshop" says: "...the larger 351W sized crankshaft journals, stronger in the heavy duty truck sense, but more friction for performance applications at high RPM."
awesome thread. i got a 302 clevo. i think they were an aussy thing as i been told you dont have 302 clevos in usa?
We had the BOSS 302 in '69 and '70. A Cleveland 302. A rev it to the moon engine. On the question at hand. 351W will make insane power just as easy as the 351C. And do it for less money. The 5.0 Mustang crowd has driven an unreal amount of parts development for the 351W. Hard to argue with that fact. Both are great engines. Can't really go wrong whit either path.
The US never had a 302C. The BOSS 302 isn't the same thing, it's a 302W with C type heads on it. The 302C is a destroked 351C.
No, they're not the same as 351M. 351M is a destroked 400M which has more in common with 429/460 than 351C/W.
Ernie, I think you might be wrong on this one. It was always my understanding that the M motor stood for "modified cleveland"... Basically the M is a tall deck cleveland block with 385 series [429-460] bellhousing and motor mounts. It was developed whan the C was dis-continued, and was modified to fill the gap in the big car and truck lines where a 400 cid power plant was missing. I do know that the heads on a 351C and a 351-400M will swap out with no problem, because I'v done that before.
i'll throw in my .02 since i had a 351W/392 built a few years ago. I wanted to make lots of power and originally looked into building a Cleveland, but found that for the money I had I would get a lot more power from a Windsor. And I've been VERY happy with it. If it's gonna say stock, i'd say go with the Cleveland. If you think you'll end up throwing some money at it I'd do the Windsor. oh yeah and the guy that built mine said something about oiling problems in the Clevelands? I'm no expert, but I would do some research on that.
The problem is that it pumps too much oil up top under EXTENDED high RPM use (i.e., circle track racing). The problem is easily and inexpensively fixed with oil restricters.
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