Freeing a motor good or not so good an idea

ok to make it clear as it seems some did'nt get it,,I do not have a stuck motor I was thinking of doing this to,,as stated below,,was just a thought that came up and I was wondering

Had a strange thought ( imagine that ) ,,but is there any benefit in trying to free a stuck motor by trying to pop start the car ??

or do you just more often risk doing damage to teh motor ? or trans.


I know at times trying from the crank with a big cheater bar does just fine,,but would the shock on the crank from trying to pop start work where the other method may not .




note or disclaimer: I don't plan on doing it was just something that popped into my head

 

There is a few threads where people have reported dragging their stuck motor cars around behind a tractor or what have you until they freed up...

 

might be a little hard on the flywheel and starter gear teeth. i like the breaker bar and to work it back and forth after soaking in marvel mystery oil.

 

well yes figure soak the motor first,,trying it dry would for sure do damage

 

If you try to loosen a rusted bolt without lubrication, your chance of it busting are much greater than if you soak it a few days in blaster. Same thing with a stuck engine, it may break loose, but if there is no lubrication, it is going to do damage.

 

If it's free enough for the starter to turn it, it's free enough to run. If it's stuck bad and you tow it, something important might break.

Can you bar it over by hand?

 

do you know why it is seized? if its due to rust just soak it and pull it around. just make sure its not for mechanical reasons before you start yanking it around! but then again if you consciously knew it was mechanical failure im sure you wouldnt be posting this thread haha.

however i have a question of my own...
would the motor turn over in an automatic just pulling it around? because my spidey senses tell me no?

 

Did this one time with my father about 25 years ago. We bought a non running 67 Camaro with a 327 and four speed. The jackass that had owned it never had it running, just put it together and sold it. It had a hurst competition plus in it.
Mr bonehead put it together with the trans shift ears pointing the wrong way and the shift rods (home made) on the wrong ears. Instead of the classic H pattern of a chevy muncie, it was upside down and backwards.
Sooooooo, I was pulling dad and he decided after a stop that he would lay it into fourth (unknown to us, now first gear) and ease the clutch out to spin the motor when we hit around 40 mph. I was watching in the mirror when this foolishness was going on.
The car jerked and hopped hard, his foot came off the clutch completely, there was a god awful screaching of tires, transmission and engine. He recovered almost instantly but the damage was done. I think that poor old stock 327 must have turned 14k rpm. When we got that motor out and apart it was epic. I have never seen something come apart so completely. Seven rods had come unglued from the big end, some we had to cut apart with a sawzall to get out. The crank broke, several pistons kissed the heads bending valves. Broken block and heads. Hell it even broke the dizy.

Long story short, becareful breaking a motor loose with a tow vehicle.

 

well to me you only pop start with a clutch..

I have heard some automatics can do that,,but have never seen it myself

 

i had a 350 COMPLETELY seized due to rust .absolutely Couldnt budge it with a bar or starter, so i soaked it down with 2 cans of wd 40 cuz its what i had. not only did it break free, but that motor still runs today never taken apart. burns a lil bit of oil but runs good

 

If the stuck parts don't give, something else probably will (as in the rotating assembly).

 

My friend Gary Williams once bought a Ford with a stuck 292 in it. Stick shift. I pushed him to about 20 mph a
nd he popped the clutch. Did it 2 or 3 times and it broke free and ran. Thak was his only car for the next 2 years. Got him and his wife and kids wher ever they wanted to go. Used alittle oil, but not real bad.

 

about 10 years ago i bought a 65 gmc pickup it still had the 305 v6 in it. the guy put a new water pump in it, he did not put antifreze in it, it cracked the block on both sides. when i got it the motor was froze. when towing it home i put it in 4th geer and let my foot off the clutch a cople of times, the tires squeled and finly it broke free and lit off. i don't think it was stuck that bad

 

I'm one who did that, after soaking the motor for a couple weeks in oil and tranny fluid, I dragged a 50 ford pickup up and down the street popping the clutch till the flat head finally let go and fired. I changed the oil, points, plugs and drove it for about 1 1/2 years, and believe it or not, it never smoked or used oil.
I'm now working on a 54 chevy that had a stuck 235, I soaked it in Marvel a couple weeks then used a bar on the crank till it started to move, then kept turning by hand till it was smooth. I still ended up opening it up though, after a compression test and leak down test, I found that the valves needed attention.

 

i think your spidey sences are on target!

 

i figured you did. just throwing it out there.

 

I would think that you would need to know the history of the engine before trying it. I bought a wrecked Camaro for the drive line. It ran fine from a gas can. I inadvertently pumped the engine full of water from the gas tank when I hooked up the hose. I did not discover it for about a year. The engine was painted and ready to start in the 34 chassis. I pulled all the plugs and filled the cylinders with penetrating oil. I used a 4 foot cheater bar. First a1/4" to the right and then a 1/4" to the left. You would not believe the muck and crap that came out of the plug holes when it finally let loose. I had nothing to loose and got it started and ran it for a few years with no ill affects. I knew it was a running engine only a year prior. As hard as it was stuck, I think it would have just dragged the tires. JMHO

 

torque converter needs to spin up to stall speed to engage, i believe.

 

Power glides

 

The owner' manual said that Syncromesh automatic trans in the 56 Pontiac I had would engage at 30 mph and could be push started at that speed...

 

If you try to pull-start it, do it on gravel...cushions the shock a bit.

Any automatic with a rear pump can be push-started....like the Ford-O-Matics. Most 1st-gen automatics have rear pumps, but I can't think of any of the 2nd-gen (TH350, C4, etc.) that do offhand.

 

I believe it is the early automatics mostly that had a pump in the rear that drove off the driveshaft, they are the only ones that you can pull start.

I'd also like to point out that the 327 that scattered at 40 in first must have been built by the same bonehead that installed the shifter. I don't believe I've ever seen a smallblock that would'nt do 40 in first gear, even with a 5.37 gear!

You guys mention a breaker bar on the crank, I hope you are'nt abusing the bolt that secures the balancer. I think the best way to break an engine loose is with a big prybar that has a screwdriver like tip that fits the teeth on the flywheel really well, you have more leverage that way. Sure, once you get it to break loose you can turn it by the front bolt, and as you turn it through it's cycles you may encounter tight spots where you need to return to the flywheel method.

Another thing not mentioned is putting something on the valves, if some of the are stuck you can bend pushrods and might possibly bend a valve if one is stuck open and a piston hits it. On an overhead valve motor you can pull the covers and work on the valves with a rubber mallet as you go.

All in all; pull starting a stuck motor is a shot in the dark. I guess in a lot of cases you could say "what the hell, easy come/easy go!" (Or maybe the Forest Gump/box of chocalates scenario fits here)

 

I believe the synchromesh pattent pertained to manual shift transmissions. Pontiac would have had an early Hydramatic, and yes they could be pull started.

 

You also need a rear pump in the transmission which most of the later transmissions don't have.

If you have the plugs out so that you won't hydraulic the engine I don't see too much issue with pulling or pushing the vehicle to get it to spin over.
That is if you know it is just stuck with rust in the cylinders and does not have other issues.
The big problem with it would be if there is a foreign object on top of a piston or internal mechanical issues such as a bad rod or other damage that would escalate if the thing spun at speed.
A breaker bar on the crank bolt has the advantage of turning until it stops and then turning back the other way until it stops if something is on top of a piston.
I'm a bit afraid to turn too hard with the crank bolt on the flathead V8 in the garage as I am afraid that it has the wrong crank bolt in it. I will probably just keep soaking it with blaster or whatever other concoction I have until it gives up and breaks free. It's two projects down on the list so there isn't a real rush except to stop the rust process.

One thing, If you are going to tow it with a chain to turn it over, make sure that it has brakes that work.

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Flathead Ford crank bolts are easy to tell because they are actually crank bolts, that is, bolts that are tall thick hex head with a crank notch to insert a hand crank in them. I believe all, even the 49-53, 54 in Canada and elsewhere, flatties have this style crank bolt and it is the same from 32-53-54 on all Ford V8s.

 

Rev the motor and POP the Clutch,,there I solved it ,,,LOL! I've heard of breakin them loose that way by draggin' 'em around and letting the clutch in and out if that part still works,,or leaving them in gear and gently tugging it ,,, and it did work.

 

there is a new guy on here that goes by the name of pool mike that's how he got his barn find truck running and has been driving it every where.I guess it depends on how stuck you are talking. In theory you probably could crack a ring or two.I guess it all depends On how lucky you are.

 

on the Ford-O-Matic's how would you pop start it? get it moving in neutral then just slam it into first? it's an automatic so there is no clutch to pop or let out

 

My uncle did the tow it and pop the clutch thing with a stuck 37 Dodge flathead 6 cyl. that he had put into an old Fargo half ton pickup. It did break the engine loose. It also bent damn near every valve stem in the entire engine.--My uncle, being a rather innovative and clever fellow then proceeded to pull all the valves and straighten the valve stems with a 3 pound hammer and a hardwood block---by eye. He filed and sanded any resulting burrs of the valve stems, lapped the valves with a can of valve grinding paste and a hardwood dowel with a suction cup on the end, and reassembled everything.--And it ran!! It ran quite well, actually. Of course, you could hear that engine coming from about 3 miles away, ever afterwards. He drove the truck for 4 or 5 years after that.---That was the same uncle that taught me how to drink whiskey and play the fiddle. He's gone now, but he did so many damned outrageous things and got away with it that he is still one of my hereoes.

 

The older automatic transmissions that have a front AND rear pump can be push started at around 40MPH...