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Hot Rods For Debate: When Did Hotrodding Take Root?

Discussion in 'The Hokey Ass Message Board' started by jimi'shemi291, Sep 13, 2009.

  1. HOTTRODZZ
    Joined: Aug 21, 2006
    Posts: 335

    HOTTRODZZ
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    Just my spin, but I would say all the Craftsmen who built the first automobiles of any kind were true Hot Rodders ( world wide )

    They were all looking for somthing better than ( one hp ) and it looked like everybody doing it had a differant spin on what was best.

    Steam, Electric, Early Crude I.C. Engines - all of them doing the best with what they had - building most - or everything them selves - what they could not build, was improvised.....Pretty impressive stuff.

    Early Land speed contests & The age of Racing just took it all to another level.
     
  2. Slim Pickens
    Joined: Dec 15, 2008
    Posts: 3,344

    Slim Pickens
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    Throttle Magazine - 1941. Check it out.
     
  3. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    HotRoddzz, WELL said!! And Slim, THANKS for the 1941 link! Both of you guys confirm my feeling that guys were "rodding" cars WAY, WAY before the "hotrod" term came into the language. Great input AND thanks!!!
     
  4. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    This thread seems, LOGICALLY, to lead to a MUCH related question: "Factory" hotrods. Even though we have nailed the derivation of the term "hotrod" to the 1940s, manufacturers and the public back before 1930 certainly didn't use the term, much less "factory" hotrod.

    BUT, from the curved-dash Olds in the early 1900s to the Stutz Bearcat of the '20s, SPEED and peppy performance WERE a big selling feature. Cars with decent hp AND light bodies were regular entries in the marketplace. Besides the FAMOUS Bearcats, I conjure up mental pix of the Mercer, Brush and Stanley runabouts.

    CAN ANYBODY THINK OF OTHER (UNOFFICIAL) FACTORY HOTRODS FROM THE EARLY DAYS OF AUTOMOBILING?
     
  5. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
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    from USA

    There were MANY different Duesenberg factory built "hot rods", and plus many "hot rods" built by coachbuilders on the Duesy chassis.
     
  6. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    T-Time: great. Any pix or any knowledge where any of those might be?
     
  7. THE_DUDE
    Joined: Aug 22, 2009
    Posts: 2,601

    THE_DUDE
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    George Barris started it all, right after he invented the wheel and the car.. Ha ha
     
  8. T-Time
    Joined: Jan 5, 2007
    Posts: 1,627

    T-Time
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    from USA

  9. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    jimi'shemi291
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    The Dude: You're absolutely right. It was George barris all the time! Good post! LOL
     
  10. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Okey-doke! Thanks to T-Time, we can add DEUSENBERG to the list of early companies ACTIVELY researching & engineering lighter cars SPECIFICALLY for performance (and equally obviously because hi-performance rep SPILLS right over into SALES of senior cars, eh?). So, if racing & hill climbs became the gauge to public perception of QUALITY, then Deusy wasn't going to be left out.

    Since I last visited this thread, I got to thinking about a couple of other companies that really got into courting the public (meaning car buyers) by pushing a hi-performance image.

    Ned Jordan was NO slouch in pushing every button he could in people's psyches -- DEFTLY relating one's car's looks and performance to one's self-perception. Jeez, this guy was ahead of his time AND was hugely successful during most of his run in the car biz !!! His 1923 magazine ad campaign, "West of Laramie," is considerred one of THE 100 best ads of all time. It showed a WOMAN in a Jordan "Playboy" cooly racing an engergetic cowboy on a horse at full gallop.

    Well, obviously, Ned was appealing to wealthy, young women, for one thing. But he was pushing the buttons of ANYBODY with a desire for style and SPEED! So, I'd add the Jordan Playboy to the list of EARLY "hotrods." It was light, had a relatively powerful Continental enigne AND was marketed as a car with an "attitude"! LOL
     
  11. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    jimi'shemi291
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    Sorry, I had to take a break for food! But after Ned Jordan made the biggest mistake of his life by gambling on a European-size luxury model, the Jordan "Little Custom" for 1927, he nearly went out of business -- and the stock marke hadn't even crashed yet.

    His last-ditch strategy was (guess what?) a hi-performance car he called the Jordan Speedway Ace. The roadster featurerd smooth, wind-cheating lines, a 114-hp Continental engine and a 4-speed transmission (not to mention lots of luxury appointments). But at around $5,000 a pop in 1930, the ace only solf 12 or 14 examples. Nevertheless, it sure caught people's attention as the country headed into the Great Depression.

    Funny how, even when times are bad, people still care about what's going on in the automotive world! As the Graham Blue Streak and the Ford V-8 would show in 1932, America's lust for power and speed were strong, even in the toughest of times.
     
  12. Actually the roots of hot rodding do not relay to time, they are entrenched in the ideas, tools, and imagination of guys with grease under their nails. I bet the first acutal hot rod was built by some farmer's son with nothing to do on a Sunday and a model T sitting in the barn. Add to that, a friend who brags about his new car. A turn of the wrench, a bang of a hammer and some off-the-wall modifications and a hot rod that blows the doors off that new automobile is born. Of course, after that, something had to break on the T, hence the conversion from hot rod to project once again.....
     
  13. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    BigDaddyO, that's well put, man. Rather than a case-in-point story, it's really more of an allegory for the hotrodding spirit. Gotta BELIEVE scenarios VERY much like this were (still are) repeated thousands of times across this continent and, apparently much of Western Civilization.

    It's not just about speed, it's about the human spirit for competition and the drive to win.
     
  14. Thanks! Every once and a while I get manage to type what the brain is thinking.

     
  15. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    jimi'shemi291
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    BigDaddy, my pleasure to read posts like that. I DUG your enthusiasm, buddy!
     
  16. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,554

    Little Wing
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    from Northeast

    when was the first car race? on some back road im sure

    hell they raced chariots so lonnnnnng time ago
     
  17. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Hey, good to see you on this thread, bro. A little earlier today, someone posted that the first official auto race was won by (get this!) an Electrobat. I'll have to go back and look for the year in the 1890s, but that amazed me.

    Seems there were RACES as soon as some viable cars got deleloped. One I recall was actually a 3-year series between Henry Ford and his mentor (at least supporter) Charles King (whose strong V-8 later premiered just weeks after Caddy debuted their V-8).
     
  18. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    Oops, that was Alexander Winton who raced with (and helped) Henry. Still searching for the Electrobat entry. Hold on, bro!
     
  19. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    jimi'shemi291
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    LittleWing: HAMBer "rtden" reported that the first official race, in 1895, was won by an Electrobat, a light electric car that looked about like a buggy. I assume it was a "closed track" race and not some race from one end of a small town to the other.
     
  20. Fordguy78
    Joined: Apr 2, 2009
    Posts: 557

    Fordguy78
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    Hot rodding started people discovered that a horse was pretty darn fast.
     
  21. Mazooma1
    Joined: Jun 5, 2007
    Posts: 13,545

    Mazooma1
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  22. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    jimi'shemi291
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    Mazooma, MY money is on BRUTUS!!! LOL
     
  23. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
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    jimi'shemi291
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    I am guilty of dereliction of duty for not having mentioned the early Terraplanes, built by Hudson, as deserving candidates to be considered early factory hotrods.

    Famed but doomed aviatrix Amelia Earhart officially christened the first Terraplane in 1932, the same season Graham brought out the world-beating, design-trendsetting Blue Streak. Unlike the heavy Blue Streak, though, the Terraplane was sturdy, yet light, had better handling than the Essex predecessor, and had ample power for their weight and price class.

    Numbered among famous AND infamous early Terraplane owners were aviation pioneer Orville Wright and bank robber John Dillinger (Dillinger is sometimes erroneously said to have driven a Ford V-8 -- that was bank robber Clyde Barrow). A '33 Terraplane is said to have set a record that stood for over 20 years in the Pikes Peak hill climb, a MAJOR yardstick for power and durability during the '30s. For 1933, a Terraplane could be ordered with a 244-CID straight eight (2.94" bore X 3.5" stroke), though the resource I looked at did not say specifically that the Terraplane eight was in the car that set the aforementioned record.
     
  24. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Another legitimate contender for the unofficial title of "factory hotrod" would be lighter-bodied, supercharged Grahams made during the '30s. During their decades in the car business, the three Graham brothers took pride in their engineers and stressed quality, speed, handling, style and economy as selling points. In 1934, Graham began putting crankshaft-driven superchargers on their eights. When the eight was discontinued after 1935, superchargers became an option on the six-cylinders. For a number of model seasons, Graham even offered a model specifically called the "Supercharger." Though some claim Graham's supercharger was a straight copy of another producer (Deusey, Switzer-Cummins, etc.), it was actually designed by engineer Floyd Kishline of Graham.
    Through most of the dismal '30s, Graham pitched for public attention -- and sales -- by competing energetically in speed trials, economy runs and hill-climb competitions, using Graham records religiously in their print advertising campaigns. No doubt the available supercharger and light weight of some Graham models would have been major pluses in competition! Before WWII, Graham is said to have made more supercharged cars than any U.S. company, until Buick surpassed the Graham total in the 1990s. Long time for a record to stand!
    At one point, Graham got in a bind for using the ad tagline "America's Fastest Car." Deusenberg, Pierce-Arrow and Packard, among others, called "Foul!" to the feds, and Graham dropped the claim -- THOUGH they could probably have been on firm ground if they'd simply modified the slogan to say, "America's Fastest Popular-Priced Car."
     
  25. Little Wing
    Joined: Nov 25, 2005
    Posts: 7,554

    Little Wing
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    from Northeast

    ROFL


    and as far a s "debate" why waste the energy,,we have hot rodding,,how about not so much where it took hold,,maybe more of keeping it alive,,and by alive ,,helping more tobuild rather than all the catalog cars,,as it seems hot rodding has gone the way of Harley back in the 90's and every NU Biker with his trusty CCI catalog in hade and all the bikes that looked the same

    take the roots back and put it back in peoples hands
     
  26. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    LittleWing said: "take the roots back and put it back in peoples hands."

    Yup, buddy, I guess THAT is why I wanted to post this thread -- not only am I interested in WHEN the need for speed originated, but I guess I was juts trying to say that rodding HAS roots in the very beginnings of even early experimental cars, and in the hearts, creativity and minds of REAL Americans.

    Hotrodders don't have a DAMNED thing to apologize for. We work for our money and take CARE of our cars. We patronize LOTS of G-D buisnesses that contribute to the economy.

    I'm damned tired of people sniping at people with cars they are (secretly) actually JEALOUS of. It is and HAS ALWAYS BEEN a great hobby/sport, plus lots of FAMILIES are dead in to their dads' and moms' passions here. How f---ing more positive and constructive can a "passtime" be?

    Shit, LittleWing, I guess we both just both have to agree to . . . AGREE!!!<!-- / message --><!-- sig -->
     
  27. Ranunculous
    Joined: Nov 30, 2007
    Posts: 2,465

    Ranunculous
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    According to Mark Christensen,author of the "So-Cal Speed Shop;The Fast Tale of the Californian Racers Who Made Hot Rod History,the first dry lakes occurred in the 20's.
    Modified factory vehicles.
    George Wight (one of the first sponsors,along with Gilmore Oil,Ed Winfield,Dunham Ford and Colyear Motor Sales,sold "speed equipment" from vehicles which had "speed equipment from his junkyard which was located in Bell,California.
    Altered cylinder heads,intakes,etc.This was to have been 1923.
    During the depression,Wight acquired Cragar,then an almost defunct manufacturer of overhead-valve conversion kits for Model T's and A's.
    There was a story of the 1933 Muroc race between Zeppo Marx's supercharged Mercedes Benz racing against Clark Gable's agent Phil Berg's Duesenberg.
    A $10,000 bet wagered that the Duesenberg was faster than the Benz.
    In front of a crowd that included Carole Lombard,Al Jolson,Mae West,Wallace Beery and Gable.
    Harry Miller flagged them off and Eddie Miller,Jr driving the Duesenberg won.
     
  28. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    Ryan! Wow, man, right there we have at least a half-dozen rodding-related FACTS, dating back to "Ts" in the '20s. I thought that was Groucho's Mercedes, so thanks for correcting a misconception I had, man.

    Well, this has been a fun thread, just (1) nailing down when the term "hotrod" itself emerged as a permanent part of American lingo AND (2) tracing BACK the roots of man'd apparent NEED FOR SPEED, which obviously gave rise to official rodding and customs in the post-WWII era. (Obviously, we all had a pretty firm concept of when "hotrod" was coined, but the second part has turned out to be a great mental exercise!)

    SO many interesting facts and opinions (not to mention humor) have been offered up here. I hope other HAMBers have enjoyed it half as much as I have. GREAT group of fellow car nuts! Salute!
     
  29. 36C8
    Joined: Sep 8, 2006
    Posts: 326

    36C8
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    I have an old car magazine around somewhere that has a snapshot of Harry Truman at an auto show, reminiscing about a car he souped up when he was a young man (think 1900-1910 or so).
    Like someone earlier posted, I think cars were being "hot-rodded" out of the box, but the term "hot rod" of course came much later.
     
  30. jimi'shemi291
    Joined: Jan 21, 2009
    Posts: 9,499

    jimi'shemi291
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    36C8, THAT is one COOL bit of info about Truman! NICE piece of the overall fabric of this them we've been on here -- the historic ROOTS of the rodding spirit. Great post.
     

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