Hot Rods OCTOBER BANGER THREAD not so frightening yet.

HAMBer donrodin going up the Hill on Sunday. (Sorry, no sound on my crappy camera.)
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Is it just me or is there no sound? Still very cool. The one of inside the truck almost made me loose my diner
thanks for sharing
Bill

 

Here is some progress on the Morton & Brett head. Showing the rocker assembly with the combination valve cover hold down/rocker oiling -4 fittings installed. Also the header flange. The other one shows the valve cover on and the intake flange. As you can see the 80 year old valve cover has a number of cracks in it. It's off to a restoration shop today for repair. To much zink in it to weld here. The new deal captures the valve cover between the hex on the -4 fittings and the B nut with the cover about .010 off of the head surface. That way you can't be cracking it by trying to get serious tightening it down. I will run a nice bead of RTV around the head for sealing when it goes on for real. Any M&B owners out there that need a header or intake flange or a Hilborn type fuel injector, nows the time.

 

Ya, as stated my camera has no sound. I didn't have time to rig a camera mount this year, so the wife held it. Pretty wobbly.

 

Ok I am brand new at this so if this post is in the wrong spot please correct me. I am in the process of building a banger motor for my lakester. My goal is to have it ready for next August, for of course Bonneville. The motor is a 29 block. My plan is to run a B crank and B rods, SBC 283 pistons (over sized .040), Chevy Valves, windfield head (8.5:1), all insert bearings on the mains, hot cam, and Model A trans converted to In and out box. The point of this post is a few questions. I want to run a high lift cam but am told I am limited to I think .330 lift. I am told anything taller than that will not fit into the cam bore in the block? I was thinking about installing the cam then welding up the cam lobs and regrinding them, all while the cam is in the block. I relize that if I ever decide to change the cam it would have to be cut out, but since the car will only be run on the salt I dont think it matters. Not too sure what rod I should use to weld the cam ( high nickel, Inkenel..sugestions) or if the cam would have to be stressed relieved after welding. The second question I have is with the oiling system. I need a full pressure oil system, and am told I cant do this with a stock pump. I was thinking of using an external oil pump run from the crank pully but they are very expensive (600-800). Is there a cheap easy way to do this right? Any help would be greatly appriciated!!

Thanks,
Mike

 

need some input from the guru's running high horsepower. I posted a month or 2 back i broke the crank in my A, twisted the flange clean off the back. i pulled the crank, and found that my center main was pounded out. Poured babbit on the mains and insert rods. This engine was making over 100 HP, and i had 6.1.1 compression. The crank was a 32 B stroked in my A block, and the whole assembly was balanced. I am getting another crank ground at the moment, and i gave me broken crank to the grinder and he checked the center main and found it to be running out .010. This B crank was ground down to STD A on the mains. I know the cranks flex and twist, but does my center main sound like a fluke, or how can i prevent this from twisting the next crank. will going to a CB crank help prevent some of the twist, or will that not be a sure bet. I am thinking torque maybe did this and a CB would have done the same thing. How does the harmonic balancer fit into the equation? Can that take the twist and harmonics out. this engine spun 4500 easy, and was fully pressurized. Its getting fixed i jsut want to try doin what is needed to keep my center main in it. IS .010 o run out on the center main from twist normal, and are insert mains the answer? Any help is great. thanks

 

Before you run your "new' crank place it on 2 V blocks, one on the front main, and one on the rear main, then check the center main for runnout. You will hear a lot about how much is Ok but Ford specs were .001 total when new. The balancer as used on the "A" "B" engine absorbs some of the shock that develops when the piston fires before TDC. I would say that you should have the crank Magnifluxed before you invest too much. most cranks break at # 4 rod throw. The heavy stock flywheel stresses the flange and if it was ever run loose it could have fatigued and cracked. Who knows? I have had 2 CW "A" cranks break at #4 and Crazy has broken 2 stroker "B" cranks. I have a stroker "B" oin my Winfield but it has not been stressed as yet/ After spending a lot of money on cranks I now use a SBC dampener on all my cranks.

 

I have a Winfield super with .365 lift and had no problems taking it out of the block. Ask around. Maybe Jim Brierley will see this and give you some exact clearance figures as to what fits. There are some oversize cam blanks on the market but you will have to have the block align bored to fit the oversize bearings.

 

fordrat,

max lift is a function of length from the base circle of the lobe. you can get more lift than that if you don't mind the cam grinder cutting into the core of the cam and reduce the base circle into the main part of the shaft. i don't see any easy way to "grind" the cam in the engine. If you need lift higher than normals just get an oversized journal cam and have the cam bores opened up to fit.

if you are really serious about going fast a b'ville you will need flow numbers from the intake and exhaust ports and have a cam ground to match that, taking into consideration max rpm, etc.

good luck....hope you get it finished and feel free to ask lots of questions and post pics....

talk to richfox and others on here. they know thier stuff.

 

Have a friend that has offered to cnc a girdle plate and design a 5 journal crank shaft, aluminum flywheel, front pulley, etc.

what would that service be worth in the real world.

he knows his stuff and quality is not a question. anyone who makes 1850 hp from 500 ci limit, naturally aspirated has my respect!

 

Crank goes for about $2300 new,

 

Mike,
It seams too much trouble to do a cam that way. If it were me, I would either use an early 28 block that has 5 cam bearings, or fit two more cam bearing supports to your block. Then bore the cam bearing bosses in the block for a larger cam bearing insert. One big enough for the cam lobes you want to run. I have been told that lifts as high as .500 can be achieved this way. With a flathead too. that way the cam is much easier to service. And with the 5 cam bearings, you will have the extra support to handle the increased spring pressure.

The stock pump will put out 100 psi, but it isn't the best choice for this application because it can't put out the volume you should have for the engine you need. Maybe you can save some money on an external oil pump by buying a discarded pump from a NASCAR team. I see them selling that stuff on ebay all of the time at a fraction of what new pumps cost.

My thoughts.


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Billet 5 bearing girdle $2300 from Steve Serr. Like Rich said, another $2300 - $2500 for a crank.





Bill, what does it take to develop friends like that.

.

 

Some great stuff on here as usual each month
Its a fantastic thread
Great to see your enthusiasm Megan
I am working on my T roadster again. Wanna get it running ASAP - will keep you posted

 

After lurking for years I thought I'd post a few pictures of my current banger project. Banger is a NOS russian GAZ motor driving a C4 into a halibrand. Motor features full pressure oiling, Howard cam, iron winfield head and a 40IDF weber. New bell housing gives the banger a 8BA bolt pattern out the back and allows the use of a flathead flywheel, starter,
and any bellhousing that ever bolted to a late flathead. Body is a 31 PU

 

There are many factors to consider when analyzing the cause of your crank failure. How long had you been running this crank? what is the weight of your flywheel? What trans and rear gear are you running? are you running a one piece rear main seal? Was the crank checked for cracks before you put it in the engine? Was the flywheel housing true to the axis of the crank flange? Do you like to mash the throttle peddle at low rpm going up hills or loaded in a high gear? All of these are potential causes for Model A crank failure. Especially with a stroked crank.

Checking the straightness of a broken crank doesn't prove that the crank wasn't straight to begin with. It is very difficult to break a crank without causing it to bend or twist. Did the center main get taken out as a result of the flange failure? Or was the crank bent when it was installed? without documentation that the crank was straight when it was installed, there is now way to tell what the cause of the center main failure is.

One of the things I have noticed on my broken cranks and also saw in the pictures of Artiki's broken crank is the area between the rod bearing and the crank throw where the oil passage is drilled looks like that might be a place for a stress riser that could lead to crack propagation. Small fillet radii ground into the bearing journals are a contributing factor as well. .

A neighbor of mine has been trying to talk me into a mercury filled balance ring fitted into the flywheel to try to smooth these things out. He says that tests done on many applications including jet engines have proven significant improvements in bearing life and reductions in crack related failures. I'm still struggling with the likelihood that an 10" ring of 5/16" tubing filled with mercury will make a dent in the vibration of an 80 year old engine.


What do you guys think? Am I barking up the wrong tree?

Enough for tonight, my brain hurts.

Does anyone know a good fart joke?


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Neat project, keep us up dated.

Looks like the making of a killer hillclimb car.

Careful, the "traditional police" on the HAMB might get you for the radials on that.
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Looks great !!!!! even the couple in the van hanging out in the back ground seam to dig it too.



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Just called Taylor Engine to get one of their SBC harmonic balancers and they're out of stock. Apparently Jay (RIP) was actually making them himself, so obviously stock has dried up. When I called I spoke to Andrew, and he says that they are hoping to get back into production with them soon, so if any one wants one, give them a call and express an interest. That'll give them the gee-up they need to get going.

 

So if I were to bore the cam bosses to a bigger diameter and use an insert bearing, where would I find a cam with larger journals? Would I have to weld and grind an orignal? Also if I didnt bore the bosses and just welded the cam in the block do you think It would be ok to run the cam with out insert bearings?

 

Were did you get the belhousing? New to the banger scene myself and this is the first time hearing about it.

thanks
TBone

 

http://specialtymotorcams.com/

 

Joe Panak at Roto-Faze is another source of oversize cams for the A. I have never heard of nor have any idea of how you grind a cam installed in the block. Do you know how this might be done? By whom?

 

Here is the Roto-Faze page that shows the cam blanks.

 

If anyone wants Pontiac rods to use for insert conversions, I have 3 NOS and 3 rebuilt (I think) but in good condition at any rate. For sale $150 delivered.

 

Elrod I am booking a vacation asap!!! That's awesome!!!

 

I guess I dont know too much about regrinding cams. Can you hand grind a cam or does it have to be done on some kind of computer controlled machine? I would think since you already have a rough shape of the lobes all you would need to do is add more weld and grind it smooth using a die grinder and a nice fine file. I know that may sound crude but I am just looking to make big power for a few min each run, if the motor sees 100 miles in its entire life I will be suprised.

 

It is commonly done on a sort of tracer grinder, between centers. The masters are now sometimes made with CNC machines. I guess in the old days they were made on milling machines using roterary tables geared into the table feed and lots of geometry

 

In other words, eyeballing it would be a disaster.

-Dave

 

I didn't want to say that. You never know what somebody may be able to pull off. I wouldn't do it. And I don't think anyone I know would do it. I had my Plymouth cam welded (out of the block) and spent more time straightening it then grinding it.