Im just wondering about car company's and the designers. since the beginning it seems like every three to five years, they all made similar changes in body styles. how did each company know what the other was doing? (just for example) like when they all decided to switch from shoe box styling, over to giant fins? were desgners working together? were there spies? how did it work???
I AGREE,SPIES !!!!!!!!!!!!! i guess nash/rambler did not have spies as there cars stand alone...............
I been watching television, they had moles. I remember hiding in the bushes and peeking over the fence at the Ford proving ground in Detroit. Then they starting painting the test cars with crazy paint jobs to fool me.
Actually, it has not always been that way. Many times other companies copy a successful design from others to use 2-4 years later on their own products. Not sure what era you are referring to but, i am sure there were insiders who were watching what others were doing. Still, if a company is working on a new design, that does not always mean it will be successful. They need to wait to see what the market bears when it is introduced. If you look at the back window/C pillars of the 68-69 Charger, Coronet, etc, they strongly resemble the same parts of the '66 GTO and Chevelle. Also, '71-'74 Chargers front end strongly resembles the '68-'69 GTO Chrysler kept with its fins and 50s styling into the early 60s while GM wiped the slate clean with entirely new 1961 models that had almost no resemblance to the 50s cars. Ford was among the first to use a much flatter windsheild in 1960, GM followed in 1963. How about the bumperless looking '68 GTO? By '69, the Camaro had it ( as an option), by '70, you could get one on a 'Cuda, and since then, every other car maker has used painted bumpers for a more integrated and cleaner look. These are but a few examples. Steve Steve Hosting- 1st annual Pontiac/Buick/Olds Fall Fest Sat Nov 28 Phoenix www.pbofallfest.org (site pending) Hosting- 8th annual Nostalgic Show & Go! March 27-28, 2010 Phoenix www.nostalgicshowandgo.org Make plans to attend
There were spies, of course, probably more so years ago. The older car and "home mechanic" type mags used to make a really big thing out of having spy pics of "next years models" and I think there were a handful of guys who made a pretty good living taking these "unauthorized" photos. They kind of made a science out of the job as well. Auto Spy Photog Jim Dunne The manufacturer's "dream car" designs played a part as well. The veiwing public's opinions helped them decide which design themes might or might not be successful. And to some degree these show cars kind of tipped their hand and allowed the competition to get some insight into what they might be planning. Some small design details on a GM dream car could easily show up on a Chrysler (or Studebaker or Rambler for that matter) model a year or two later. As already mentioned, some designers swithched jobs and took their influences with them to a new manufacturer. They also had at least some access to the future design plans of their former employers. Years ago it was also more common for a manufacturer to hire an out side design firm to do some of this work for them. When their contract expired, some bits and pieces of their earlier proposals might find their way into a project they were hired to do for their next customer. Improved manufacturing and engineering techniques play a part as well. Improved, smaller wheel and tire designs have have allowed vehicles to be built lower to the ground. The expansion of paved roads, interstate highways and improved maps has allowed suspension systems to be scaled down as cars required less ground clearance and lower spring rates. Sadly, I think, in more recent years one of the main design considerations for all manufacturers has been aerodynamics. But everybody's wind tunnels return the same kind of data and it makes it increasingly difficult to create original, distinctive designs which are also capable of slipping efficiently through the air. As a result, most recent designs tend to be similarly bland and boring. And safety and fuel mileage considerations are now taking up more of the manufacturers budgets while styling and design cycles are made ever longer.
I always figured they all stopped at the same bar after work... I did read someplace once that the shoebox '49 Ford clay design model was done on a Ford designers kitchen table by some guy who worked for other than Ford.
My guess is it had to do with the public taste or in other words what sold. The bottom line has to be about making money. In all fairness, that is why auto makers make cars. Be that as it may, I get to enjoy the end result.
if you look at the 49 fords and chevys you see ford was way ahead as far as the flat sided cars go... chevy didn't come out with one till 1955. I'd say no one was spying on the Chrysler Corp. when they were dreaming up thier early 60's designs... and if they were spying on anyone else they got some bad information.
There's many antiquated books that state all of the World was/is under one controlling party. Henry Ford wrote some about how the Global Market was controlled then and how he had to walk the way "They" said or he wouldn't succeed in the Car Industry. It goes way beyond cars.
Exactamundo! i've often wondered the same thing; Examples: 65?ish-66 galaxy 500 65-6 pontiac lemans, boneville etc. stacked headlights. 10 years later 76-77 montecarlo, malibu 77 ford ltd montego etc. Also stacked headlights. Coincedence? NO WAY! I think somebody met someone else in a dark alley with cash and photos. But this begs the question then and especially now---why do car manufacturers copy each other's styling?
The shoebox (49) Ford design story is true. I forget the designer, seems like it might have been Flajole? He tried to peddled the design to Nash before going to Ford. I'm an AMC guy, and have collected a few interesting stories like this one! George Mason, head of Nash at the time, looked at a design from an independent designer and considered it for the upcoming 50 Nash Rambler. Drawings came across Mason's desk for the 49 Ford and Mason was furious!! He didn't know the designer had seen anyone else! Mason apparently drug his feet getting back to the designer. The Nash engineering department (they didn't have a separate styling department back then, many of the smaller companies didn't) had already drawn up plans based on what the designer left with Mason. Look at a 50 Nash Rambler close and you can see a bit of resemblance to a shoebox Ford (except for the trademark Nash "skirted" front wheels). When Mason got the guy in his office and "blessed him out", the guy just told him he didn't get back to him shortly after their initial meetings, and didn't think Nash was interested. Nash engineers made a few hasty changes, like eliminating the "bullet" nose and had to forge ahead. The story goes that Mason refused to pay the guy initially, but Nash and the designer eventually worked something out. If it was today the designer would have threatened to sue, those days things were usually worked out in a more gentlemanly manner... at least more often than today! The guy might have had to at least threaten to sue, Mason was known for being a hard-ass...
Too bad Nash didn't make a decision quicker, they could have actually had a decent looking car for the first time!
Internet message boards. Friggen designers couldn't help but spout off what they were doing on www.cuttingedge50'sdesign.com. "Hey, check out my new design"!!
i think today's "designers" are suffering from dementia and should all be fired. Even the class 8 tractors have the stupid triangular headlights. ENOUGH! Why copy?
I've ofter wondered about this, but in a very general styling point of view. Why did GM/Ford both ditch running boards for their 46 models? Why did GM/Ford both ditch fat fenders for the 49 models? Why did GM/Ford both use wrap around windshields and headlight brows on their 55 models? When each manufacturer introduced new models, there were strikingly similiar ideas. Makes one think. Rich
Has anyone seen the relatively new "art deco" grille International tractors (as in tractor-trailer)?? Saw one just a few days ago. Don't know when they came out, but I immediately thought of the old stylized 1930s tractors! It just needed a streamlined and skirted trailer to go with it...
Chevys had em until 1948, they were hidden under the bottom of those flared out doors. from 41-48 they were hidden
a good source of insight for this thread is Collectible Automobile magazine; i've been reading it since it came out in '84 (i have every copy i could catch after the first one) and in their main articles they explain nearly every aspect of how any particular car came to be; what it's competitors were, and what the designers were striving for. and it's true that designers went from studio to studio in those days, and took their own styling cues along with them. design heads would steal artists from other firms, and fire them just as quickly! there's sound reasons for nearly every design change over the years, like losing running boards, slab sides, wraparound windshields coming and going within 5 years.... wheel sizes going FROM 16" down to 13" and back up past 18"...... good reading and lots of reference pictures. lots of pretty pictures if ya can't read.
Actually, that's more more true than funny. In the early 60s Chrysler management had misinterpeted, avoidably it seems, some overheard information about Chevrolet's downsizing plans. At nearly the last minute they attempted to redesign the '62 Plymouth and Dodge models with disastrous results. This, combined with some other drama involving some of the top brass nearly turned Chrysler inside out! Chrysler's Early 60's Styling Miscue
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