A couple days ago i was welding in the roof filler for a chopped top on a truck. Two guys came in that need some chromemoly bent for a porsche-engined motorcycle, one was an experienced welder. He asked me how i was welding the roof filler into the truck without any distortion. I shocked myself by saying 'I'm not telling'. And i didn't! I am a big believer of sharing information and teaching somebody how to do something, that is part of the fun of having a skill. Nobody has asked me how i weld sheetmetal and i have spent years figuring out how to do it and i just wouldn't part with that info. It is bothering me that i would do such a thing. I have a great deal of respect for the opinions of hambr's, was i being some kind of elitist asshole? Did i cross the line where self-important proprietary knowledge exceeded common courtesy? Sure, i could have explained how i did it but without him actually seeing me do it that info probably wouldn't have done him any good. This thing really is bothering me. What do you guys think.
YES and here's why. These guys were customers - yes? They WILL get answers to their questions and be greatful to whomever gives them help - that could have been you. Being in business - you could have given them 90% of the answer sent them on their way happy in the fact that you helped them - letting them (even telling them) that the last 10% is the hardest to learn and they can only do that with trial and error. YMMV
Why the heck would it matter if someone new the way you welded??????? I would've probably left your shop quickly! It's like you're hiding something??
Cant take anything with you when you leave this world so why not pass on those years of hard earned knowledge.
You won't be much use here if you don't share. Are you going to ask for advice on theboard? That's why we call it a commnity, not a hierarchy. Glad you had second thoughts.
if you had told them, they probably would have went out of there scratching their heads, only to forget about half of what you told them before they ever made it back home. and 90% of the learning would have had to come from someone (you) showing them hands on for them to get it right. i wouldnt worry about it.. but sometimes you do have to think ahead as to who you teach certain skills to..it can come back to haunt you, and on the flip side can also benifit you..pass the torch, we all need to learn stuff someway, and if your a good teacher and have the ability to pass on something, it helps
The way i understand it, you either run this business, or work there. That being said, i think the best way to promote your business, or any business is thru "word of mouth", that being said, it would have left a long term positive image of you, and/or your shop, which that person would have told his friends, his friends would have told their friends...etc. You get the idea. Bottom line if he wanted to know badly enough, he will, with or without your help/advice. For sure you should have told him. It's not like your giving away government secrets...it is promoting your shop, and our industry we are all a part of. Okay, i am now stepping off of my soapbox.
And after you told them the process and they tried to effect the welding and screwed it up they'd bring it to you to fix. Then,when you did the great job repairing it,they'd tell their friends,"Boy,i tried to weld that and _____ bailed me out of a mess.He's a good welder." Mebbe swing by and see how those guys are doing and tell them you were just "funnin'' with them and give 'em a hand? They'd feel so indebted to you for it. Just my opinion? Best of luck!
A artist could explain how to paint all day , and someone without the skills will never pick it up. Some people are not ever gonna pick any of this stuff up. Thats what makes us cool. If it was easy everyone woud do it.
I guess my thoughts are that if you want your skills to be a lost art....then don't tell them. I know that when I first started working on cars I had to ask a lot of questions(and still do) to learn things....Thank goodness they would share their knowledge with me or I probably wouldn't have any interest in cars period.
Thanks guys, all honest answers and the only answers i would have expected. Heres' the problem, when the guy asked me how i did it i realized that i really don't know what i did. I guess it is all bundled up in what is called technique, just a whole mess of very little things that i don't think about but do.
there are two sayings,,,, "Blind them with science" and "If I have to explain it to you, you wouldnt understand it." I find that when someone comes up and ask questions, its because they have no clue what or how you did or are doing something. Since they are not taking notes, then you are probably safe that it is not a information leak capable of sinking your business. I had an old bossman that told me the best way to sell something is to tell the buyer all you know about the item. The buyer will appreciate your knowledge and honesty. His opinion will be to respect you and maybe even return the favor. On a darker Halloween note: If the guy asking questions had gotten all the info he needed, and told his lazy x-box son how to do it, and that was just the ticket to keep him of crack cocaine, then its worth answering his question. Just my opinion. Here is my old bossman.
If it weren't for other people sharing information with me, I would have given up on old cars a long time ago. Sure, some of the information is bunk or doesn't make sense, but it gave me the confidence to try it anyway and learn by my own mistakes. This obsession of ours will go the way of the dinosaur if we don't open up and share. An old timer told me the best way to plug a leaky gas tank was fill it right up with fuel and while it was leaking out to go at it with a torch and brazing rod. "Just got to be quick" he said. Needless to say I haven't done it, but appreciated his "wisdom" and admired the fact that he was still alive and had balls big enough to put in a dump truck. Just because he shared his knowledge doesn't mean I have the huevos to try it myself.
Back when I first decided I wanted to become a luthier, I went to a couple local guitar shops to ask about an apprenticeship. I was met with the same elitist "secret" bullshit you just pulled on those dudes. Right then and there, I lost every bit of respect I had for both of these guys. If there's one thing I've learned over the years, it's this: the guys who truly know what they're doing, no matter what the trade, are more than willing to talk about and share their methods. On the whole, the guys who won't or try to pull the whole "it's a trade secret" crap usually don't know what the hell they're doing. As previously mentioned, I think most would draw the conclusion that if you're worried about losing business by giving out your "secrets", you must not be that good at what you're doing! Just my opinion, for what it's worth.
In this context, yes, you were wrong to blow the guys off like that. I will admit though that you should be cautious and walk a fine line between helping people out, especially possible customers, and giving away all your trade secrets and losing business. But in this instance, it takes years of experience to be able to perfect that kind of welding skill. These guys would probably go home, try what you mentioned, warp the hell out of the panel, and bring it to you to fix. I used to work in a shop in Newark, DE that built Porsche 911 race cars. People used to call all the time asking for advice when it came to choices of engine parts, conversions, exhausts, etc, when they were just fishing for info to get parts elsewhere. That gets old quick
I can think of a lot of reasons to keep it to yourself...customer attitude, not enough time and many more. I'd have begged off by saying it takes years of experience and feel and is not something that can be explained in a few minutes. I like to help others if I can but sometimes there are reasons that I remain quiet. Like some of the questions here, you can often tell by the way that it is asked that it is a no win situation. Like most thinks in life you have to rely on how it feels at the time. That is something that none of us typing here can feel after the fact. Don't beat yourself up too much.
Maybe you got the top all fucked up and warped anyway? If thats the case you saved them the hassle of learning the wrong way
To me... I don't have time for bullshit like that. I am young guy trying to learn and I ask for help, advice, suggestions all the time. If I would of recieved an answer like that, I probably would of told you to shove your welder up your ass and "blasted" you verbally so you would never get any business from anyone I ever came in touch with. Just my .02
An old guy once told me that you could post the secrets to being a millionaire on the courthouse door and 99% of people would either walk by and not read it or argue with it. It probably would not have hurt to tell him
So why not share it? You wouldn't have "parted" with it, you'd still have it. You act as if had you told him, you wouldn't know how any more. But now you say "when the guy asked me how i did it i realized that i really don't know what i did" So which is it? Sounds like it to me.
When I was a kid, welding was kept a big secret by alot of guys, I guess because it made them feel special. What a bunch of goons. Always think of one my bosses, the famous "Leadhead", who took the time to show me how to use a torch. Now everyone can at least have a small mig welder,and do some stuff themselves...much better than waiting for some weenie to do it for you. That attitude still pisses me off a little.
I've been put in that situation too. The problem I have is trying to explain the details. I'm awful at it. So when I see the guy(girl) walk away scratching there heads after explaining the metal work and modifications I've done to my car or truck. I'm left there thinking,I shouldn't have said anything. I probably left them more confused. It's all good,don't dwell on it to much. Like Belair said, at least you had second thoughts about it. "Experience is an other word for mistakes"
Most people won't retain enough to do them any real good with just a quick explaination. It's when they want a detailed demonstration along with an explanation is where I draw the line. Guys like Ron Covel and Gene Winfield make a pretty good living passing on information in a demonstration setting but what they tell and show still takes years of practice to really be benificial. Plus they get paid for "passing it on". Frank
cheek to cheek hand to back mouth to ear That's how we learn many things, for if you ask, you shall recieve, if you know knock, it shall be opened, these words apply to everything in our day to day life....
" Porsche Engined Motorcycle " .... Its not my game , but hell if I heard that ..... I really would not care .... Teaching anything takes a great deal of patience .... and somebody that wants to learn. Rare things nowdays .
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