You missed a golden opportunity to teach yourself. Many times we learn things the way you describe and can't find words to capture what we're doing. The way you elevate your skills to the next level is to talk it out with either a novice or an expert. By fumbling thru the descriptions of what you're looking for in the process, you're gonna illuminate the nuances. Things you didn't even realize were happening because in your head they're dovetailed into the steps on either side. Novices are great because the stupid questions force description of the fundamentals. Experts are great because they can explain the physics behind what's happening as you fumble with the hands-on description. The way we improve things is one step at a time. If you can't accurately describe or understand the steps, how can you make them better??? good luck!
Yes you were wrong, it's hard to believe you have the nerve to admit to it and still come here to learn from those who share their knowledge, but at least by asking it's pretty clear you know you were wrong, and hopefully won't do it again. I did something similar once about 15 years ago. I was at a show and people kept asking where I got a certain part on my car. I told my friend that I was getting sick of the same question. Just then someone asked, and I said "I'm not tellin' ya". He walked away, I thought about what an asshole thing I'd just done and went looking for him, never found him, and it's bothered me ever since. If you see the guy again, tell him, and anyone else who asks. In fact, why not tell us, and we'll pass it along for ya.
to put things in to perspective.....I know how to weld a panel without any warpage..well I know the theory but it don't mean I can do it....that takes practice and lots of it!!
I've been working away this morning and thinking about what it is that i do, like backing the weld side with 18ga steel to absorb heat and a piece of .016 brass shim stock to move the heat around behind the weld, the angle of the torch, how that the filler rod must be the first thing molten and move the puddle to where it needs to go. Weld three tacks, cool it and then stretch the metal. The actual weld is the easiest thing, all the shit you do around it is the stuff i'd never put together in my mind, much less tell somebody. And no, the customers were tickled to death. I didn't 'blow them off', i dropped what i was working on and set up the bender (had to move the frame jig too) made their tubing pieces for them and charged them next to nothing. They showed me pics of the motorcycle, very nice work too. They were both engineers developing ballistic stuff for the military, very smart guys.
Well, it would have been "PC" to tell them how you did it, But DUH, it is your choice to tell them or not to tell them. These guys don't "deserve" to know how you do anything. You are under no obligation to share your "intellectual property" for FREE or otherwise, and some might say you would be dumb to do so, especially if you use your knowledge to feed your family. If you want to be generous, (or if you choose not to be generous), with your acquired skills that is no ones business but your own. There IS a difference between GENEROSITY and OBLIGATION, otherwise being generous would have no meaning whatsoever.
What benefits are there for sharing the info.? What do you get by keeping it a secret? We're all in this together, I don't keep secrets.
I wonder more about the tone of your voice and the message of your body language when you blew them off than just the bare meaning of the words. That 'message', of course, cannot be reproduced by your keyboard. As suggested, if you are worried about your image with these guys then drop in on them and see how they respond. Being a decent human being, is after all, one of the few things that costs nothing but is worth plenty. .
If it was me I would have told him my procedure and started a conversation about it. No one knows everything, he might have known his shit and givien you all kinds of tips and ways of doing things you may have never even considered. I never pass up the opertunity to talk to others about fabrication, body work, painting or welding, you never know, you just might learn something.
Invite them back and I'll bet all of you have a laugh over it. Since they're both Engineers,they'll understand,especially since they do work for the Military. You might end up with a couple of really cool friends that can "hook you up" with Government Surplus
So you would come to another persons place of business, and pitch a fit when the owner chooses not to take the time to explain how he does his work? where I come from, that attitude might get someones ass kicked... I find it "interesting" how lopsided this argument is. Perhaps most everyone agrees that these Porsche motorcycle guys should post the question here on the HAMB so they can get the answers they deserve. I am just saying...
Think about what custom builder Gene Winfield does-holds classes all over the world to share his knowledge of custom car building. Each of us have a little different way of doing things, but the more input and ideas the better. Gene has a class coming up soon at his place in Mojave-posted on here.
With all due respect to Mr. Winfield, whom I respect a lot, I think he actually charges for these seminars? Capitalism > Socialisim......
some things you can't explain to yourself..you just do them..besides you can't explain years of knowledge in one sentence to everyone that walks into your shop..sometimes people want a simple answer to a complicated question..that's what the internet is for
When I was an apprentice mechanic, alot of old guys wouldn't give me the time of day, and alot of them only new a "couple" tricks, on how to do certain jobs, and they wouldnt do anything else because they were specialists!!! So I got by, by reading books and going at the job with all I had...Now, with all the new state of the art shit out there, it seems like more and more of the older guys ask ME now how to use the computerized tooling of todays shops, and I brush ALL of them off and make THEM feel stupid, but I am always willing to teach a new guy, and my apprentice thanks me for it everyday.
Somewhere is a happy medium,I guess.In my non-car,but somewhat technical business,people will shamelessly ask me how I do the more mysterious procedures that they are PAYING me to do for them,hoping I will teach them everything I know,and they can save $20-30 by doing it themselves.It's all about how they approach me.I've shown the secrets to a few,and enjoyed sharing with them. But the typical question I'm asked like this would require hours to properly answer. I don't ask my doctor how to fix people,and he doesn't ask me how I do what I do. We use each others services,and pay for each others knowledge and experience.
He does charge but he has airfare, hotel, meals etc. just like anyone else. By the time it's said and done he makes about as much as a toyota tech per hour. Most people could not afford to attend his class at his place but can swing the small fee he charges at the host shops all over the U.S. Thanks Gene.
Why is that? We're on a site that's all about sharing knowledge. The personalities participating are the kind that want to learn. It's not a true cross section of society. IMO the difference between a craftsman and a worker is the ability to explain what they're doing. Both know a specific set of steps achieves a specific goal. But only the craftsman understands the why's that connect it all and seek others who can expand those connections. The risk in zipped lips is not only appearing to be just a worker.....but ultimately leads to being just a worker by failing to expand those connections/knowledge. Interesting thread
I would say that was kind of an asshole thing to do plus if it was at your buisness and they were paying you for an item and you said that to me I wouldnt be back to your shop to buy stuff. Those guys help pay your bills and help feed your kids or dog. How much more rewarding would it have been to just help the guy out with learning a new technique. Every single person in this world learns everything they know from someone else. Not to rub it in but theres a lot of this stuff going on here at the H.A.M.B Im a noob at workign on cars and have to ask a lot of stupid questions because nobody I know works on them and instead of people just helping there's I get bashed from the know it all's. I dont know man but that would eat at my conscience but then again I like to give. Dont worry man with you posting this it shows you do have a conscience and its eating at your so just maybe next time share your knowledge and have your legacy live on. Take care
Sounds like you are making a bigger deal than they did. If you ever have the opportunity, apologize (if you feel like you should) and offer to let them watch some time. I doubt that they are going to go into competition w/ you. I love watching people work that have a skill or knowledge that they have honed through years of experience. Doesn't mean I can do it myself, and in the end it usually gets them a referral from me whenever I get a chance.
I share lots of info. They're things that work for me, not always for others but I share some of it anyway. There's a few things I specifically will NOT share under any circumstances. Things that I was shined on by others over the years and have since excelled at. I'll not share how I woodgrain. I'm a 3rd generation artistic woodgrainer and the materials and such to get it to what I wnat took many years to perfect. In most cases it stands out that it's my work and I wish to keep it that way. General knowledge, welding, surfacing and finishing, think about it this way...you can't do all of the work that's out there and there's enough for everyone. I'm also quick to share and compare OEM specs and details. Being a Packard guy that happens a lot. I learn as much as I share and by the time I learn it all as 2nd nature I'll probably be 1 foot in the grave. Should you carry with you like baggage? No. Get over it and use it as a learning experience.
Ive been building cars for years and had a customer ask me about painting with pearls and how they worked. I spent an hour or two telling him what I knew and how I did a few things different. He sold the car I was working on for him and bought a 34 street beast with a pearl on it that was different than anything I had seen before. I ask him who had painted the car and he told me the guys wife had painted it [her first ever paint job] two weeks later he was at a car show taelling everybody how he had chopped his car [ a street beast ] and had painted it himself in pieces. A friend of mine waho was also a painter [26 years] told me that he was impressed with the job because the flop on the pearl matched so good. I did not pass up the chance to tell him the guy could'nt paint a pop can with a paint brush. Moral it depends who you thee
Being a plumber I always And I mean always have people asking me how to do one thing or another. I always go into deep detail...cause it has never failed to end one of three ways... 1. they just pay me to do it. 2. they try to do it and fuck it up then pay me to fix it. 3. they fix it. only to have me do any other plumbing problems they have because it was a pain in the ass. Plumbers- the only people who thinks shit smells like $$$$$.
when i was building my 34 i asked a lot of questions, the answers that i got the most from the local rodders is i don't know, it didn't feel to good, my first build, i had a guy tell me to find something that is close and make it work, that is the best advice i received, anytime anyone ask a question i give the best answer i can.
Not sure how you made that jump.. The Porsche guys were at his shop, so there was some sort off connection there and they knew eachother. Enough to have a discussion, anyway.. I would have told them. And explained in detail ( dependig on how much time I could afford to spend on it, that day )
If it has caused enough conflict in your head that you felt you needed to post the question and ask..then I think you have your answer.. Wrong ? like in right and wrong,,no,,,,perhaps careless or just ya know ,,shit happens
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