Definitive early Ford master cylinder swap? updated 2/15]

I would try an early Mustang MC.

64-65 looks like they were stilll single reservior. So maybe 67, picked drum-drum:



NAPA

 

After having the same thoughts, I swapped the single res MC for a drum/drum Camaro with an adaptor bracket on my early Econo, which has similar but smaller 10" diameter brakes. I've tried two different bore sizes, brakes are all new, I've changed the pedal ratio, etc... The brakes are adequate, but have never felt great to me. They've still got that drum/drum feel even if I don't have to worry about losing all stopping power if I spring a leak. I think my next move is to a *gasp* disc brake kit for the front.

 

'67 Mustang is what I've always used. Since they came in disc/drum and drum/drum combinations you can get them in either configuration. Make sure you get the non power version if you're not runnin a booster. The non power one has a deeper hole where the push rod goes in to keep it from falling out.

 

Don't know anything about modern metric so******t godless cylinders, but I can post the original numbers for the comparison:
Your original MC is 1.065
Front wheel cylinder is 1.0655, rear, damn, I can't tell from bulletins because there is no 8C one listed...it must use same one as 8A, .878, or 8M, 1.003

 

Theres always something to be said about a stock brake set up, they work great, ive used the above mentioned mustang master on a t-bucket with f100 front and 8" ford rear, they worked but they were hard to push. ive also used a mustang master on early ford brakes front and rear, it worked the same as the T, ok but could be alot better, then i built my 34 p/u, 40 brakes up front, 8" ford rear end, i bought a f1 (or so thought) pedal ***embly from a junkyard and found out it was a f2 pedal ***emble, different master, 1-1/4 bore, they brakes worked.....and still work awsome to this day, itll put you throu the windsheild if you wanted, i know its alight truck but they work awsome, ive always heard smaller bore but this was oposited, reg early fordis 1-1/16, but ive used stock early for master and stock juice brakes with 1/4 lines and that worked great too.

what are you going to do for brakes all the way around? stock f1 brakes front? and later model Rear? if so run a larger bore master with the stock pedal ***embly with the 3 bolt to 2 bolt adaptor.

jeff

 

Here you go Kevin. Old thread with those numbers.
'
http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46008&highlight=bore

 

Yeah, on my 34 pickup, I used the same drum/drum MC with a tri-5 chevy firewall mount pedal ***y pushing 46 ford front brakes and 11" rears and would STOP!

 

For drum/drum I tell'em '68 Mustang myself to get another year away from the fruit jar to help the Joe Reilly folks from getting (more) confused....

 

1-1/16 front wheel cylinder bore size

rear-1" bore

ive got a wagner brake catolog in front of me too if needed.

 

I love my Wagner book. It is a must have. Donzie and I actioned one off here a few years back.

 

when worked closed i took home all the catolongs!

once a parts man, always a parts man.

JEFF

 

Dont rub it in! I was a couple days late from getting all of the books from a store out here that changed hands. My countertop stand is only 1/2 full and needs more! Got any doubles?

 

Old parts catalogs will save your hide every time!
On Bendix brake responsiveness...the F-1 brakes here, early Lincoln, '49 type Ford, and most 1950's Bendix applications require centering before final adjustment with the ratchet wheel. There is a procedure involving moving the anchor pin to a specification that varies a bit by make to get new shoes to the right place before you adjust...if the truck has been worked on by anyone younger than the truck, he probably was completely unaware of this and current centering will be entirely random.

 

no doubles but i may be able to get some certain catologs, i still have freinds in hi places

 

same footprint on most ford master cylinders, there are at lease 15 different part numbers that apparently work for this swap. '67 mustang mc will definitely work, i just finished swapping one (manual drum/drum) into my car. think the bore was 1". pretty straightforward, other than the pushrod issue--be aware that most of the rebuilt units (at least the ones i came across) have the pedal pushrod already installed and locked into the piston with a snapring. i'd try and get a new unit without the pushrod installed (bendix part definitely comes like this) rather than rebuilt to make sure you can use your original pushrod. otherwise you'll have to pry the new one out--a sorta nervous undertaking.

by the way, if you've got a pressure-activated brake switch you want to replace, the stock distribution block and brake light switch (pedal mounted) from '65 model year up will work. sure you could hit the s****yard for these.

 

Thank you Kevin, Bruce, ***us, and the Black Hills guy. I needed this.

 

not sure what the foot is like on the f1. if it's like the f100 (53-56) that bolt to the frame rail through the master cpp makes a bracket and you can use a mustang master for drum/drum. if it's like a car with the 3 bolt master here's my swap on my '47.

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=367059

pic is my '54 f100

 

I don't suppose that you could reproduce that procedure here could you? I have some alleged F-100 brakes that need this adjustment.

 

I used a 72 maverick master on the shoebox, not sure on bore diameter. The pedal has 2" of travel or so and has nice feel and is fairly easy to push.

 

i also have a illustrated guide that has pics of masters, wheel cyl part # and bore sizes. gotta love ebay for old catalogs .

 

Will dig out procedures. There are minor variations of where and howmuch gap between the various vehicles. If your drums are original, you will find odd notches on outer surface where there are slots (usually blocked with crud) for a feeler gauge. From memory. on Lincolns you slightly loosed anchor post...you want it hard to move...put in an .010 gauge a little off-center up top to get top of lining and whack the post to move brakes up against your gauge. If no notchreplacement drums you will have to secure a feeler in place with drum off, then do the procedure. Other Ford Bendix vehicles and other makes have slight variations of place and dimension. The joker in the deck is of course that this ***umes shoes arced to drum diameter. I have lots of specs, but I think nothing as recent as 1956!

 

I think I read this whole thread but didn't see the answer to the question I've always had. Is there a dual master that's made to go under the floor with built in residual valves so it's just an adapt and bolt in? I've heard from a lot of people having trouble using MCs designed for swing pedals, putting the MC above the wheel cylinders, having brake problems trying to use these under the floor. Anyone have any experience with that or know of one that will work without any other extraneous parts?

 

Drum master cylinders all have built in residuals. If you are using any type of disc m/c, you will need to add an external residual if the master is below the level of the cylinders/calipers. However, if it is a disc/drum style, you will only need to add it to the disc side.

 

i do not believe that to be correct in all drum master cylinders. i just checked a `69 mustang drum/drum master cylinder last week and it definitely did not have residuals built into it

 

http://www.jalopyjournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4482014&postcount=19

follow the link..........in the post
no master will bolt to the 3 bolt pedal except the stock master. when getting a new master take a paper clip into the parts store with you. get the master you want (either disc/drum or drum/drum and the right bore dia) unfold the paper clip and insert in hole. if you feel a little spring inside then that hole has a res valve, repeat in other hole. i've found out not all 4 wheel drum masters have the res valves in them, some mustangs do some don't (if i was smart i would have wrote down what years to remember). i used a chersler because it was low, had the right bore and as a bonus it have the res valves. on my '54 panel (pictured) i used external res valves on a mustang master and it works fine.

 

Yeah, I know this is an old thread but in doing a search to find if anybody had scienced-out a quick and dirty way to adapter a late model dual master cylinder to F-1 pedals [for my 34 coupe] I didn't find ****.....sooooo, I remembered I bought a Speedway adapter to mount a la te model master to a set of 39-40p***enger pedals the old 3 bolt kind and I wondered if maybe I could cobble thaqt adapter to my F-1 pedal ***embly. I wandered out to my little workshop and took the adapter out of it's plastic wrapper and held it up........hmmmmmmmmmm, the 2 bolts on the side lined up but the big center hole was too high. In a fit of genius, I turned the adapter upside down and glorybe!!!! It fit!
Henry had been kind enough to drill a 3rd hole in his F-1 mount to mount a common ford 3 bolt p***nger car master cylinder, which means Speedway motors adapter will work just fine on the F-1 pedal ***embly.
You're welcome!

 

Hey! As an afterthought, this leaves the two unused top bolt holes to mount your clutch-cable mount bracket!
It also means if you have a 33-34 ford car, you don't have to figure out a mount for your 39-40 pedals. Just whip up a simple bracket to mount the F-1 pedal ***embly and begin whittling the crossmember leg for pedal clearance.

 

http://www.hemmings.com/hmn/stories/2010/05/01/hmn_feature29.html