Hot Rods OCTOBER BANGER THREAD not so frightening yet.

Thanks for all the info on the Winfield car- only on the HAMB!

... and it would be great to have Bluto back on the thread

 

I’ve heard that Ed Winfield’s comment about the 2-up-2-down engine was “it vibrated a bit.” We’re not likely to see many 2-up-2-down cranks forthcoming in speedsters and gowjobs, then?

Might be a good use for all those “two-piece-crank-club” cranks.

-Dave

 

There are no original parts on the Winfield car, just the engine, and it has a brand new crank. Pete Eastwood re-created the chassis from old photos as did Dennis Webb when he hand built the new body. There's a sister engine to Ed's out there some where. Art Sparks, inventor of the forged piston, borrowed Winfield's drawings and built himself his own 2 up 2 down engine when he was in high school.

The Winfileld car was the fastest in the land in it's day. The promoters of Ascot hosted a race to find "The Fasted Ford in the World" in the late 20's. Drivers and builders from all over the country made the trek to win the claim with their overhead Fords, but Ed Winfield cleaned their clocks with his little flathead car. After the race Arthur Chevrolet, who built the Fronty overhead equipment, walked over to Ed's car and said "Well, I'm looking at it but I still don't believe it."

When Ed drove his car to the race in Bakersfield, not only did he run well above 130 mph on the highway, he averaged over 40 miles per gallon doing it!


Rick Rawlins who owns the Winfield engine now, and the re-creation of Ed's car, raced it at Laguna Seca and said it's faster than any supercharged Bugatti or Alfa he's driven in previous years.

 

Winfield only used Winfield carbs. He built his first in 1917 for a motorcycle, first car carb was in 1920. He worked for Harry Miller for about 4 years, starting at the end of WWI and from what I've read learned some chops by studying the work of Leo Goosen and Fred Offenhauser. Winfield had an 8th grade education.

By the way, not that it matters much, but Ole Evinrude also got his start working for the great Harry Miller.

 

anyone know how the block is modified in Ed's car to fit the big main journals?

anyone able to scan the article from the T magazine?

thanks
Zach

 

Ed Winfield and Chris Eggsgard at Ed's home in Vegas with the 2 up engine. Eggsgard at that time owned the engine. Before he died he wanted the motor to go to the right caretaker. Looks like he chose correctly.

The firing of the beast, June 23, 06. Isky taking it all in.

Rawlins and Winfield at speed.

 

thanks for those pics flyin-T
looks like an accessory trans on the back? like a warford? i think i read that this is a modern additon... might have seen it on TV.....

sure wish Ed was still around to learn from!

 

There is supposed to be a formed piece of heavy wire called the bail that clips to the steering housing and snaps over the light switch body or cover holding it in place. You really should take the time to acquire a catalog from Snyders, Brattons , Mikes or Macs. All of these have drawings of the parts of most assemblies electrical and or mechanical. If you get one you will also learn the proper terms to identify the parts so that people will know what you are asking about. Things such as steering column and driveshaft.

 

well, everyone always oooh-and-ahh's over the crank (and rightfully so), but take a long look at the cam and the intake tract, they are much more interesting. I think I have a pic of the cam some where. Will check when i get home.

I have a challenge for the willy on here: what is the rpm is the intake manifold tuned for...(clue: look up the calculation for a ram induction intake manifold, it is here on the HAMB)

 

I've stared at that intake alot.... I assume that the area behind the carb on each side is equal to the volume of each cylinder....so a full "charge" of air/fuel is ready inside the intake each time the intake valve opens?

being presurized by normal pressures forcing in on the carb.... so inturn it would depend on the pressure around for it to equate to a certain RPM....

I could be way off base though??

 

A roller cam shot and other cam related shots.

 

visualize the intake charge as a continuous sine wave that moves back and forth along the bottom of the intake (exhaust on the other hand moves along the top of the exhast tract. and dont forget since this is a flathead everything us upside down), from the back of the intake valve (when closed) to the mouth of the carb inlet (air horn). This wave when timed correctly (at a given RPM) can be travel the full length of the intake tract and come to the underside of the intake valve (to find it open) and "force" (which may be the wrong word) the charge into the combustion chamber. in short summation.

 

Thanks to you and the other contributers this is fast becoming my favorite banger meet. Thanks guys! Luke.

 

Too bad we can't take it a step further and use the shock wave created by the closing intake valve traveling up the intake manifold and back and catch the valve open again on the next cycle... (or is that what you are suggesting?)

 

that is what is being done.

 

OK, but wouldn't you need one intake port and one carb for each cylinder? Or with Winfields U shaped runner could you "force" the charge of a front cyl with the shock wave of the rear and vice versa? It seems that the 2 up 2 down would really simplify the timing in this approach. Luke

 

Took me a while to find this, it was in the garage. Bottom end of the 2 up engine. Rather than crop the pics, I just scanned the whole page except for the text which had to do with a Winfield's single over head cam rajo and roller cams for T's.

 

you wouldnt happen to have a picture of the head/ combustion chamber?

 

Here's a wordy, long article that deals with (I think) what fur biscuit is talking about. It was written by two guys that have published 11 books on hopping up model Ts. Howard Genrich is the man that introduced Rawlins to Eggsgard as a possible caretaker for the 2 up engine. Cullinane recently passed away.

 

Yes I would.

 

thanks fur biscuit....

flyin-T thanks for the pics and info....


this has me thinking..... T motors are cheap enough that I think you can afford to "try" things and screw up before getting it right...
I wana outrun some V8's!

 

you can definately make a T speedster run with and even out run a v8 over the road. it all about balance.

 

There is one of those BIG Winfield barrel valves on ebay. Just search Winfield in ebay motors.

 

fair condition...just broken.

 

That car looks very similar to the car that Pete Eastwood was building in the HOT ROD GARAGES Book. With Tony Thacker at the NHRA Museum, I would go as far to say that it probably is Eastwoods! The front cross member and spring shackles are tell tales for me

 

Here is one I saw recently. Don't ask. It's not mine.

 

Bill,
How do these perform compared to the S or SR ?

.

 

I have run a V and really liked it, but then I run a Master and liked it to. The tunability of the V is very limited compared to the S/SR.

Being more into Model T's than A's, I like the V as it is more period correct piece. The lower end throttle response on the S/SR is better than the V.

 

I have found the thread, but I need some time to read it and do the calculations.

Don't have time until the week end. Going to the Bob's Broiler cruise tonight, and the ALCS game tomorrow night.


Thanks for the challenge

.

 

should be fun to pry into Ed's mind, of course he may have just arbitrarily built the runners too...but I doubt it.