Style Advice: 32 5W from 1964?

I have a build thread going already for my new old steel 32 5 window coupe where I'm posting build updates but I wanted to have a specific style discussion and elicit responses and opinions.

Here's the styling brief:

I was born in 1964 so I thought "I've wanted to build a decent hot rod all my life. I wonder what I would have built if I was able to back in the year I was born?"

That doesn't mean that I want it to look like a cutting edge car from 1964 but I do want to make sure I don't put anything on the car that wasn't available back then. I may even end up building a 50s style car but with bits up to and from 1964. As long as it all fits and gels and makes me happy every time I drive (and see) it.

There can be small exceptions as long as they are cool and fit the general theme. An example would be a 160mph police special speedo from 1965. The tyres would have to be new or new wrapped old stock.

This will be a big engined (with rough idle) 4 speed car that will be driven a LOT. I love detail and will finish it as best I can from pride but it doesn't have to be perfect - just cool and I want all the parts to fit so if you see me hinting at or making what you consider is a mistake in style please let me know.

Here's what I like:

Metal flake steering wheels, paint and interior (though I prefer a black interior mostly I could look at a tuck and roll featuring my paint colour).

For some reason I've always liked yellow for a hot rod colour (some of you probably have an idea why). I could go with a metallic yellow with matching flake wheel but I'm also partial to metallic green or blue/green.

I like a "performance" edge or look - drilled stuff is cool and I plan to make a few drilled brackets.

Stewart Warner Curved Gl*** Gauges - lots of them.

Chrome or Mag wheels.

Wide rear tyres.

Rake.

Dual Quad Nailhead.

4 Speed (or Truck 3 speed + O/D)

Chopped (sorry but I've waited too long for this car to not have it the way I like it and what better car to chop than one that doesn't need too much straightening or any rust repair)

Hiboy or bobbed rear fenders and cycle fenders for the front (I love HEMI32's car, Bruce Larson's Blue Coupe...etc!)

I really like the new Firestone Dragsters - or something similar. I like conventional tyres too. So just wide 8"+ tall rears and 6" fronts (I like Trosley style wide fronts but I realise there's a style limit).

I have some oval headlights (actually they are p***ing driving lights from a 30s Bentley called Notek Drive Masters).

I would like to know what of the above would be ok (and in your opinion cool) on a car that could have been built in 1964.

I'm a pretty good (industrial structural steel) welder but have never tackled body work and have never painted a whole car, hell, I've never even built a car and this will be my first real build. I had the idea to only use arc welding as I have the skill so I may as well use it. In fact I've not got much experience with T.I.G anyway. I know T.I.G. was around those days but I'm guessing that a normal suburban backyard builder wouldn't have had access to it but an arc welder would have been definitely accessible.

I've played with and tried to own cool cars before though and cars have been my life's p***ion since I was 14 so I want to do as much of it myself as I can including welding the ch***is, doing body work (with help if necessary or even going to body shop cl***es).

I dig all cool cars but I'm not a dyed in the wool traditional rodder (may as well be honest) so I have LOTS of questions but I'm really digging what the H.A.M.B. stands for and am looking forward to stretching myself and making sure I take advice from all who want to pitch in. It just so happens that the kind of car I would love to own fits right in. I'll admit it did take me a while to arrive at this point but I'm here now and feel right at home.

I've been searching in this never ending forum (it seems as big as the internet!) and love reading all the threads. I've run several of my own (unrelated) forums so I know how to search. I spend hours on here every day.

H.A.M.B. is my new TV.

So, if you were around and building hot rods in 1964 or have researched the era yourself or just want to throw your 2 cents worth in to make sure I don't **** this up.

I know I'm not really worthy yet but I'm learning fast, like what's going on here and can see what (most of) you are getting at. I've always liked old things, stopped at old antique stores and love rummaging and working with my hands. I have a two car garage (mahal) and a reasonable collection of skills and am not shy to go for it.

I'm also collecting as many hot rod magazines from 1964 as I can but if any of you have any that you would like to sell to me I'd be glad to take them off your hands.

I'd also prefer to deal with H.A.M.B.ers so if you can sell me an old part for my car I'd be honoured to wear it. I've already met and bought parts from some way too cool H.A.M.B.ers and I plan to buy more.

But anyway, that's a start. I'm glad I've narrowed it down to a specific year as it makes it easier for me and everyone and gives me focus. Any advice or input you can give would be appreciated.

You want to spread the gospel?...well, I just walked into the church!

 

Here are my opinions:

Curved gl*** Stewart Warners were last produced in about '57 so they are probably a bit too old for your build.

The oval headlights sound wrong.

8" wide rear tires are too big for '64.

Everything else seems reasonable. I would suggest besides the pre '64 magazines, try and find some pre '64 parts catalogs. I used my 1963 Honest Charlie catalog as a reference for my '28 PU when I built it.

 

Sounds like you want a buick powered American Graffiti clone ! No on the oval headlights.

 

I'll admit I liked the Graffiti coupe when I saw it but I think there are enough clones around so I'm probably going to go for something not yellow. I want this car to say "Hot Street Coupe" though I'm not exactly sure what that means apart from "Hot Rod" to me means hot motor, 4 speed, rake, bigs and littles and for me...metallic something.

If curved guages were out in 57 then they could have been used for a car in 1964 and look cool in any car. I'm hoping so anyway. Remember, It doesn't have to be cutting edge from 1964, that's just the date this coupe "could" have been made in. 2nd Hand curved gl*** guages are something he (the 1964 builder) could have liked and installed?

Catalogs! Good idea.

8" too big for 64? Bummer. I'm seeing some pretty wide tyres on cars in images from around that time in mags. I'll have to check the details. I like this car on the Lucky's Speed Shop Shirt (which I'm wearing right now). 1964 or not I could live with this car! How wide are these tyres you reckon?



Here's a pic of those headlights I thought were cool...


They match the verticalness of the grille bars and the hood side louvers. I'm also looking for a way to be unique without sacrificing cool or style flow so if I decide they are definitely out they might suit someone else - I have three. Might use them as bench lights in the garage.

 

I also have a set of 33/34 commercials I could use if they fit better...

 

Sure, curved gl*** gauges COULD have been used in a car built in '64. But if you want the car to have clues to a "build" date, I'd think you'd use what was available from a speed shop that year. Guys could have used 1934 Ford 17" spoke rims, but they didn't. They used chrome reverse, Americans, MT's, etc.

If you are talking slicks, then yes, I'm sure 8" wide slicks were around. But I think the street tires would have been narrower.

I still think the headlights are wrong. They would have used sealed beams.

 

I see, now I'm hearin' ya.

Ok, let's go shopping (in 1964) for just a standard 'ol "hot street coupe".

What Gauges would have been "fairly common" to see in a well built admired hot street coupe of the day?

Is the Lucky's speed shop coupe (above) an example of "60s" styling? They look like American 5 spokes (I have always liked Cragar 5 spoke chrome wheels) so if I went with those what size would have been common back in '64?

I'm already sold on the 50 Pontiac rears, though I used to own a 56 Chevy so I'm also considering a set of those for rears as well.

The reason I need bobbed rear guards is the law down in these parts. I'd rather have no guards at all but if I have I can't have "cycle guards" at the back if I'm going with wide rears.

White wall or black wall would depend on the final style but at the moment I could go either way and from what I've seen over the years is in some cases interchangeable.

One thing I do like is the "Pie Crust" look so if Pie Crust tyres are a must that would limit my tyre choices I'm guessing and might even set the style.

I forgot, me likey flames, that may also set the style right there. Yellow is almost out the door on this car. Leaves black, blue or green (no red cars for me).

Sealed beams, so the commercials are out too? I'm a fan of funky headlights so I'll take a suggestion on that.

Thanks for the responses.

 

Loose the shorty headers, the 4 bar and the alternator and this is pretty much a 1964 style 32 5W ... Subs***ute a Nailhead Buick for the SBC. Use split wishbones and 60's style SW DeLuxe gauges ...

 

Thanks.

How do I indentify those gauges? Is there a code I can look for or is that square logo the way to identify the DeLuxe?

 

Those gauges have that "SW" logo on them the block logo.

 

Thanks. Anyone got a set of 2 5/8 block logo SW gauges? PM me. Would curved gl*** faces look that out of place? I really like them.

What about headlights then, what sort (diameter/style) would most probably have been fitted to a street coupe back in 1964?

Were steel Cragar 5 spoke wheels available in 1964?

What about flames or scallops? I like flames, would they be out of place in 1964? Scallops would be nice too. I've been inspired by a few cool coops with subtle scallops.

 

you want a hot rod from the mid 60's? Look up Tom McMullens deuce roadster....it was redone many times since he got it in the 50's, BUT possibly the most famous version(and the one it was restored to) was the 63ish version.....Roy Brizios shop did the resto....It was all the ques you're gonna need!!!

 

You know, I didn't even think of Tom's Roadster. I've been looking at it all these years and it's a perfect example. Probably a car that influenced me more than I think. Last I saw, it had radial tyres and big fat slicks on the back so I'll have to source some early pics. I think I have the restoration article here somewhere.

Good tip. Thanks.

Great...there goes another 5 hours in my magazine room.

 

Curved gl*** 'wings ' gauges are about 5-10 times as expensive as 60s block SW gauges..everyone wants them and they are therefore crazy money.for a sixties build,just get the block gauges. I have some you can buy..I think i have fuel press, ammeter ,oil press and oil temp , PM me if you want photos.

 

Gauges:
5-10 times huh? Bummer. Still, they look the guts. If I could afford a set I'm guessing they would still look ok. If I'm wrong on that let me know. If anyone has a set PM me. I'll also PM you Ranch' for some photos of your guages.

Rear shocks:
What about suspension? When did coil-overs begin appearing on the rear? If not by 1964, what suspension set up will I most likely have used back in 1964?

Front Shocks:
In the front, I'm going beam axle (naturally) but I also have a set of Ansen sprint friction shocks. I grabbed them on an opportunity but they're probably too light for this car (just had to grab them anyway). I'm guessing a nice set of chrome full case shocks would look good though they are somewhat 50s in style I do like the shocks on Bruce Larson's blue high school coupe (front cover of Rod & Kulture Magazine #19) though it's a 50s style car I can't stop looking at it.

Brakes:
I have access to a 1963 Riviera which has a full set of brakes and was thinking of using them all round. What challenges will I face working out how to fit the Riviera drums to the Ford axle? I like the idea of a matched set of brakes from a donor car.

Pedals:
I found a set of original used Ansen pedals too so this is shaping up nicely. All old parts where possible for this car.

Wheels/Tyres:
I'm also liking these wheels that "Grit" chose from this thread. I was going to go Cragars but these "Supremes" look cool and slightly different. What size do you think these rear tyres are? We can get Firestone Dragsters (slick street tyres) down here in 8 and 10 inch sizes (though I must admit they are getting a little too popular/trendy - just can't keep us happy I guess). The rev-head in me says "go the 10s!" but I'm guessing that 8s would have been more common.

 

If it were my car................

For an engine, I would use a 421 Pontiac with tri-power, and a 4 speed.
Pontiac was killing in both NASCAR and drag racing up till the 1963 ban. If I were building in '64, why go to the trouble of an older, less powerful motor, even if it is pretty. Junkyard at the time would have a 'standard' tri-power available.

(plus, I am a Pontiac guy)

David

 

I'd love to put a Pontiac motor in! Alas the dual quad 425 Nailhead will have to do (it's already underway) but it will be a manual. Got to have 3 pedals.

 

Another good car to look up from the past to get some ideas from is Doyal Gammell's 3 window that made the rounds in the magazines in '63 and '64. It was a very neat glimps at what wascool in '64. Rodders Journal did a article on ti's resto a few issues back, so did ROD & CUSTOM. Yes Cragar s/s's were brand new in '64. Oh, and coil overs would not be the right thing in this case, we didn't really see those on street rods until the mid to late seventies. They were brand new at that time, but were exotic race car stuff - think formula 1 and the first rear engined indy cars. It seems that most hot rods at that time were running either transverse leaf springs or coils (commonly Corvair front coils), with double pin type shocks inside the coils. I would suggest that you do anything you can to aquire a sizable stack of '62 - '65 era magazines and start looking! My favorite from that era was Car Craft. This will be the easiest way to get a feel for what was going on.

 

That was a clue that lead me to heaps of cool threads such as this one & this one which should keep me busy for days! Thanks - great tip.

A lot of post 65 stuff though that's grabbing my attention so this thread will still be needed to make sure I get 64 or earlier styling cues only.

 

Is this too early for 1964?

 

Cragars were around, as were Supremes, though they have a more custom flair I think. Personally if I were doing a 1964 street hot rod I would run a nice pair of skinny chrome reverse wheels. Mags if you are going for more of a race look. Hurst makes some great repro "piecrust" slicks, you NEED these. "Corvette" mills, though most were just dressed up standard small blocks out of any Chevy, were popular as were Oldsmobile engines. To do this right, just go out and buy a bunch of Hot Rod magazines from 1964, they have all the answers!
-Dean

 

True story:
As I was reading your reply I was on the phone to Ben from Antique tyres told about a deal I could get on a set of chrome reverse wheels that were a double order to match my new tyre choice. Not old wheels (as I would have preferred) but good enough for mock up and I'm sure they'll help the sanding much more enjoyable.

I've always liked the simplicity of "chromies" anyway. These are 15x8 and 15x5.

Tyres:
I chose the 5.70-15 WWW Firestones for the front and 8.20-15 WW Firestone Dragsters for the rear.

So I guess the tyres set the look and I'm excited so it all feels like I'm heading in the right direction. The Chromies are Vintique so I'm not married to them and would prefer some original old SS or AR 5s and I still like the look of the Supremes.


Next direction is brakes and suspension:
I can get a hold of an entire brake system off a 1963 Riviera. I can also get the diff though I have been advised they are too heavy for a 32 coupe (unsprung weight is too high - makes sense to me). They sure do look tough though and would be a mid 3s ratio and probably LSD plus I can get it for pretty much nicks (same for the entire braking system as well).

As mentioned earlier I used to own a 56 Chevy so if I could find one of those I'm sure it'll be tough enough. If not Olds it is. A 9" ford sounds too easy but I can't argue on the parts availability though I'm not sure how many parts I'm going to need if it's built right the first time.

All in all happy with today's haul not to mention my RJ roadster just turned up - woohoo!...and it's as cool as I thought it would be. It was cold to touch - mmmm, metal.

 

Cool as...

 

670 is pretty wide for a front........isnt it??? Or is it a different peasurement system..... I would have thought 6.00 max for the front.

 

You're right. I rang to discuss and we went for the 5.70-15 Firestone instead. The wheels are 15 x 5 as well so I've changed that in the post above.

Love the H.A.M.B.

 

Cool, glad to help.
Do the wheels come any narrower than that? say 4.5 or 4??? If they do I would change to either of those.
I have 6.00 on a 4.5 rim at the moment and it looks a little fat, I am changing to a 4" rim.

 

This car was built just prior to and shown till 1964!

 

Not these wheels because they were an "opportunity buy" and will look pretty cool while I set up the car. I'm on the hunt for some original wheels from 64 or before. Can't wait till my shipment of 1964 magazines arrive. I've got plenty of earlier 60s and lots of 70s 80s...etc but nothing beats the smell and info of an original mag that would have influenced me back in 1964...were I living in the US.

Another challenge will be to cover the tyres enough to get it registered and not look too ****. I'm guessing bobbed guards for the rear and cycles for the front. Saw a nice BSA at the Strath swap meet that had great looking front guards. Hate that we have to cover up but it's just another challenge to make form follow function.

 

Black coupe is nice.

White seems to be a theme.

What about steering columns:
Nice steel, thin and cl***ic sounds like the order of the day. Chromed?

 

Mmmmmmm pant movement!!!!!!