Corvette Suspension on a '57 Buick?

Hey guys, I've been looking around at some Corvette suspensions to put under my '57 Super.

I want to run airbags, but I haven't seen a lot of Corvette set-ups with bags. Is it an easy set-up?

Sorry if this is a really dumb question. Just wanted the the opinions of the HAMB before I buy a front and rear suspension off a 'Vette.

Also, any opinions on the performance of a 'Vette suspension? Do you think it's a good/bad idea?

Help a kid out.

 

I think that if you want a vette, buy a vette. A '57 Buick won't ever handle like a vette, no matter what you put under it. The weight distribution is too different. Vette suspensions are transverse leaf. Bagging one is a real pain in the ass. If you had ever driven a vette made since 1984, you will recall that they really have a very harsh ride. Sports cars do that. If you want your Buick to handle, there are better ways to do it, but it won't hang with a vette in a corner, even then, with a roof that's twice as high.

Why don't you tell us what you wish to accomplish? Looking cool at any price? Bullet proof reliability? Lowrider looks over comfort and ride quality? Ultimate drag race traction and braking? One setup that does it all for under $20?

 

Corvette suspension is designed for a Corvette and Corvette weight distribution. Basically, just because a Corvette suspension works great in a Corvette, doesn't mean its right for your '57. As much as I don't like the pro-touring scene, you need to check out this forum. http://www.pro-touring.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=21 There is a ton of good info on there. Everything from off the shelf kits to building your own. I've been doing a lot of research for building my own for a double A arm independent front suspension and found a lot of good stuff on there as far as what works and what doesn't. Since I'm guessing you're wanting to go with IFS, I've got a really good PDF that explains it really well. Let me know if you want me to PM it to you.

 

Maybe it's a good idea, maybe not, but Jay Leno put Corvette underpinnings in his 55 Roadmaster

 

Thanks for all the responses guys.

@moparforlife: Yeah, go ahead and PM me the PDF. I need all the help I can get. I'm just a kid with a brain full of mush.

@scottybaccus: Thanks for the advice. You're probably right about it all. I had been looking at S-10 clips, but my dad raised the question as to whether the S-10 was meaty enough to handle the weight of the Buick (I don't know how a Corvette suspension solves that problem) but we got to talking about different set-ups, and we just thought it would be a cool deal to have a 'Vette suspension.

As to what the car will be, basically just a cruiser. I'm not looking to do any drag racing or AutoX with 'Vettes. Just something to cruise low and slow in and around town, but I'm young so ride quality, although it would be nice, takes second priority to to lowrider looks.

I know zman here on the HAMB swapped his suspension to a Jag front and rear suspension, and I've looked through his build thread and it seems a lot of these weight questions were also raised, though I've heard nothing bad from him as to ride quality and whatnot.

Care to chime in?

 

Why not just get a Fat Man's frame stub for the front and make a 4 link for the rear

here's some pix of my 57 Special

 

Yeah, I'll probably run a triangulated 4-link in the rear.

I'd really like a Fat Man stub, but I think they're pretty pricey, aren't they?

 

I think the stub was around $950 plus the control arms I picked them up for epay pretty cheap and the spindles. I have around $1600 into the front end minus the WilWood brakes I had them for a nova that never got finished. But if you think about it I saved a lot of time. The stub has all the holes for the bumper and core support and everything was within a 1/16 of the stock frame after I was done. I still have not had the front clip back on but I will soon. I don't see in problems with it fitting I will have to trim the inner finders to clean the upper control arms

If you do a shearch for (Project getlow) there is more pix I would do a link but I have no clue how to

 

I know it's hard to find the gee-whiz factor in it, but I am a firm believer that nothing beats a properly restored OE suspension in these types of cars when cruising is your primary use. They ride great, handle fine and really do more for the value of your car than any other option. You can upgrade the brakes for no more than you would spend putting good brakes on any other option and the addition of a good sway bar adds some really good manners.

Whatever you do, don't use a clip from an S10 or a Camaro. They are wrong for all the same reasons as the vette and have even fewer good qualities. If you must ditch the stock, find a system designed for your class of car, having the right geometry, weight capacity, roll-center, etc. Remember that your car was designed by engineers, and even in 1957, they had better info than you have right now. Dollar for dollar, you just won't beat what they did if you restore it properly.

 

^^^^ what he said....

I will NOT EVER stub another car/truck as long as I live...back when stubbing a car was popular that was what we had to work with, there wasnt alot of aftermarket options for disk conversions and the support for rebuilding a stocker wasnt there either. Stubbing solved that but created different problems (namly track width and sheet metal placement issues)

Personally if your hell bent on not redoing your stock set up, I would recommend a MII kit from a reputable supplier. The pro's in my humble opinion...you get to talk to the manufacture, give em details, weights etc and come up with a plan that wil work for your car...then the install is straight forward, all your sheet metal mount points are the same and your track width is golden.

BUT once I do my next sled, if I dont require something a bit more wild, I'll be redoing that stock peices with a disk kit. At the very least a MII kit.

 

Thanks for the input, guys.

I'm not hell-bent on doing something custom, I had a '63 Buick with a stock suspension and it was fine for cruising. The problem with the '57 is that my front suspension right now is very tired, and of course, the '57 is a one-year only front suspension, and it is really expensive to replace. I believe they also make a disc conversion for it, but like I said it's a lot of dough. This is what brought about the stubbing conversation.

 

An option to consider if you have fab experience or know someone to help, You can replicate the geometry of the stock suspension with common late model suspension bushings and ball joints, using a spindle of similar dimensions to allow easy steering and brake support. I have a friend that creates tubular a-arms this way for mid '60s land yachts when he is contracted to air bag or g-machine one. It works far better than an MII setup or clip.

 

sure... handles great, rides good... though...

Correct though it's tough on the 57 Buicks. One year only suspension makes for some $1200 ball joints and you have to have cores for them as well. But...

If I had to do it all over again I'd get a early 60's Buick center section and convert the rear to open with some trailing arms. And as long as your front is serviceable do a Scarebird front disc set up. Hell I'd probably even machine up a balljoint conversion...

 

The reason people cringe at a restore factory suspension on a '57 buick is this:

Uppers $700/pair

http://www.kanter.com///productdeta...0&Vdr=&Itm=&MDv=1&MDpt=0&MSb=0&Cat=73&Prc=330

Lowers $830/pr.

http://www.kanter.com///productdeta...&Itm=02535D&MDv=1&MDpt=0&MSb=0&Cat=73&Prc=323

We ahve a '57 buick as well and I also believe in restoring stock equipment, but sheesh.. $1500 in balljoints alone is tough to do sometimes.


Edit: Zman is faster than I am

 

Just to add to this, I put late full size GM (Caprice and Caddy Fleetwood) frame stubs under my two old Pontiacs, a '48 'vert and '51 wagon. It's cheap, it's easy (but kinda scary when you sawzall the frame off at the firewall), and overall I'm happy with both. The wagon doesn't handle as well, for whatever reason, probably 'cause it's got too much cut off the coils.

To do it over, I'd probably use a Scarebird disk brake kit, at least on the wagon, as opposed to the frame stub. It'd had the stock stuff all rebuilt, which I shitcanned in a quest for disk brakes (kits not available when I built it) and power steering. The convert I'm very happy with as is, and wouldn't change it, ever.

The track is perfect too, BTW...

 

I have had experience with Corvette suspensions in everything from, well Corvettes to 1/2 ton trucks. They work amazingly well in different applications. I get rid of the transverse leaf, usually for coil overs. I have done air bags on them but it gets really tight and clearances around the bags are sometimes too small. Plus you lose some of the advantages of the handling capabilities when you bag it.
BUT you do get current geometry technology, power steering, REALLY big brakes and lightweight.
Firm believer if you really are looking for great handling and stopping, otherwise look elsewhere.

 

I'd be fine with restoring the OE front suspension, but as it's been said, $1,500 for balljoints is a bit out of my budget. I'm 17 and paying for this project with money I made from a summer job and from selling some other cars. Now that's not to say I'm going to be a total cheapskate, but I am going to be a bit practical. Restoring the OE suspension just isn't in my cards, so I'm looking for some alternatives.

Thanks for all the input.

 

If rebuilding the OE stuff is out of your budget then the Corvette stuff is certainly out of your budget as well. The nickel and dime stuff for a swap like that will eat you up quick. Are your present balljoints good? If so I'd go with them and either worry about them later or possibly adapt some others.

 

I have a '85 Vette IRS in my '50 Burb. Rides and handles great. Transverse spring is stiffer than stock, and acts as a swaybar. Aldan coilovers do the lifting.
Buy a kit for $900 from sweet ryde (something like that) or fab it yourself like I did. Pictures of mine are in my HAMB album.

 

i know the camaro clips have a bad rap here. but i was in the same boat as you. the parts for my 58olds were out of the question! i will never pay that extortion for friggin balljoints! so i just finished up swapping in a 79 z28 clip was fairly easy fit the car good and will drive excellant. no one would ever know its under there. plus the new calipers were 14 bucks at autozone..

 

"I have a '85 Vette IRS in my '50 Burb. Rides and handles great. Transverse spring is stiffer than stock, and acts as a swaybar. Aldan coilovers do the lifting.
Buy a kit for $900 from sweet ryde (something like that) or fab it yourself like I did. Pictures of mine are in my HAMB album. "

'50 chevy suburban nailed it -
The rack in the corvette IFS is kind of high and ends up being relocated in a swap, and the transverse spring is usually dumped for coilovers, so you lose some of the engineering that went into the factory setup. What you end up with is essentially a MII with forged A arms. Just food for thought.
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I know that many think there's no place here for camaro clips, but I have to disagree. They are not for every car, but they can work great if they're on the right car and done right.
I bought a 39 Pontiac coupe 25 years ago that had been clipped badly, so I got it cheap. The original front frame section was already gone of course, so there was no going back, and this was before mustang II's were widely available. So, I removed the clip and reinstalled it right, I drove that car as my daily for twenty years or so, and still own the car, and never regretted that camaro clip.
If you're low on funds and it's the right car, it can be a good choice. Just remember though, it's a very big commitment, requiring cutting off your frame, so be sure you know what you're doing, think out everything before you commit, I've seen a lot of cars ruined by them.

 

With far superior geometry, ie: camber curve, anti dive, etc. Also dramatically larger brakes.

Kits from Flat Out Engineering are reasonably priced and used stuff in the junk yard makes it end up Cheaper than the usual MII or Fatman stub etc and you don't have to worry about the integrity of the frame as with a clip.

 

None of which is appropriate with drasticly different center of gravity, instant center, weight distribution, modified ride height.

What it boils down to is that 99% of drivers don't know what any of that means and will never sense it being out of order while driving.

'50 Burb guy likes his. Will it pull 1G on the skid pad? Is it REALLY as effective as it was in a vette? No. It's a compromise. A comparatively expensive one.

In my humble, but I promise, well seasoned opinion, people are in too much of a rush to dismiss what a factory engineer accomplished without due regard for what they will sacrifice.

 

@zman: My balljoints are completely shot. Seems like someone drove that car until there was nothing left and then parked it. I've been looking at some different Corvette suspensions, and they seem gettable, but you're right. The nickel and diming would probably hurt me pretty badly.

I'm beginning to think maybe Corvette isn't the way to go, just because it's not a pro-touring project, just something to cruise in, and the difficulty in bagging that set-up.

I also can't do an OE restoration, due to costs.

So what are my options? Right now the two main things going through my mind are MustangII or a Fat Man. Camaro is also kind of swimming in the back of my mind.

Thoughts?

Thanks for the input guys. It's a huge help.

 

61 was first year of open driveline, I'm dealing with the headaches of closed driveline on my 60 LeSabre.

 

Keep what you have, but convert the suspension parts to easily sourced parts. It's no more difficult than properly installing a new clip of suspension kit.

 

Mine won't do 1g in the skidpad, nor do I care to. My wife wanted it to ride like my friend's Jag, and it does. Smooth, yet firm.