conder, what your doing is the dream many of us have had. the NDRA deal in the 80s was supose to be the deal you are doing now. I was at a meet in famoso in 84 or 85 and the guys would run the cars, drain the oil change plugs and drink beer. Been interested in your build for years. saw that you had built two and almost fell out of my chair. If im correct you where selling one and i can tell you they are the baddest cars on the planet. There are no cars like those two. You got the best people, gene adams, pete jensen. The money deal is the breaker for many. people are waiting for that car to make the "pass". that car is the real deal. I for one dont understand why all the cackle "money" heavy hitters dont run the cars true to there era insted of the cars they call nostalgia. Cars short and long, kelly and watson style paint jobs ,is where they should be right now. Its a great thing this internet as we all get to see things that in the past would only be seen and known around the local area and the guys on the inside. thanks to you the dreams are alive, keep us posted.
I very much appreciate the comments fellas. Hopefully this weekend I'll be making a trip down to L.A. to swap out my oil pump. After that I'll have enough resources to fire it on nitro and get the axles/coupler in it for push starts. We'll run it in on fuel and if everything checks out we'll push it down and maybe hit it once or twice. Don't know when exactly (I don't measure progress with a dragster by time, only money.) Here's a quick list of my "start up" items for all you guys thinking of doing this... *10 gallons of nitro - $15 per gal. - $150.00 *10 gallons of methanol - $6 per gal. - $60.00 (Pete warms up his nitro cars on straight alcohol. It saves money, less attrition on parts.) *W-D 40 for flushing/priming parts. (Alcohol is very corrosive, get it out of your system completely before retiring the car.) *Castor oil - For lubricating the fuel pump after running. *Lots of oil. My Donovan uses 16 quarts and it has to be changed after every run. Rex Hutchison's put petroleum based oil in my motor when they buttoned it up. Cheaper oil is fine for intitial start up (but IT DOES NOT MIX WITH SYNTHETIC OIL.) It's 4 bucks a quart and I needed 32 quarts (16 for alcohol. 16 for nitro)... 32 quarts petrol based racing oil at $3.99 per quart + tax - @$140.00 My car will be run exclusively on REDLINE synthetic oil. No I'm not sponsored with them yet, although they've fronted me 12 gallons (over $1,200 worth) and have agreed to give me racer net. (they're just waiting to see what I do, like most.) Jensen's also a Redline man and swears by it. One of the good properties of their oil is, you can safely warm the engine up and make 1 pass on nitro without changing it. *Pete starts his cars on gasoline, and on warm ups shuts them down on it too. This flushes everything and the gas lubricates a bit. *We drained the oil after running the car...no metal in the oil, not really any alcohol either. The batch we used to warm up the motor is fine to use on the next firing. Every little bit helps save $$$$$! Still, you can't be cheap with nitro. Be careful. *Pete used a chamois draped completely over the funnel opening for filtering the fuel into the tank. You can't be too clean on these cars. *You have to have a good oil pressure gauge where you can easily see it, plumbed with HIGH QUALITY fittings. Hardware store !@#$ may snap off during tire shake and soak you with (napalm?) hot oil. Fuel tank and entire fuel system must be flushed of all fuel for retiring. Wash the tank out with soapy water (NO PHOSPHATES!!!) Use phosphate free soap as mixing nitro and phosphates is hazardous. Make sure the tank is completely clean and dry before putting it back in the car. *Apparently, there was enough oxygen for me to breath during that fire up, but it didn't feel like there was! I recommend doing these things outside, (unless you want to baptize your new shop correctly.) CM I have a message out to Pete about the header flames, I'll get back to you when I hear something. Ivory Hunter, that comment about the slicks was interesting. I've been told the M&H "spec" tire I'm using comes from the original 1967 mold. It might be as simple as changing to the right compound. Wouldn't that be GREAT.- More later!
Ive been involved in fuel racing my entire life, from going to Fresno and Irwindale as a toddler w/ my dad's Jr. Fueler to tuning and driving a current NHRA A/ Fuel car. Being originally from Walnut Creek, I got to visit Davis', Citro, Galley Bros., etc. on a weekly basis. My dad still loves to talk about his direct drive Jr. Fueler that went 200, "and that was smoking the tires all the way down!- if it didn't go 200, I knew it needed a new set of springs." I totally agree w/ your desire to get back to the "essence" of fuel racing that our fathers and grandfathers enjoyed. Load up your car, tools, and nitro on the open trailer, and go racing. Cackle Cars, Exhibition passes, etc. will never be anything more than what they are. They are museum pieces, rolling art, tangible memories of what was. What they lack is what MADE them the first time around- the spirit of true competition. Trying to beat the guy in the other lane. Trying to set low E.T., working on that "majic" combination, working harder and smarter than the other guy, etc... In my opinion, smoking the tires isn't ever going to push drag racing beyond "hey cool, that exhibition car smoked 'em all the way down!", and frankly, no matter how wild the ride, I would get real bored, real quick. I wanna race somebody. What I would LOVE to see is a TRUE Jr. Fuel class. Iron Small Blocks or small Hemis injected on NITRO. Light, yet SAFE, cars, direct drive, etc. Cheap to build, cheap to run and maintain, go fast, burn nitro, heads up, and actually Drag Race. This would get us back to the sort of fun our dads had back in the day. If anyone is interested, I'm all in. BTW your car looks wicked Conder!!! Just my 2 cents, Dave
"In my opinion, smoking the tires isn't ever going to push drag racing beyond "hey cool, that exhibition car smoked 'em all the way down!", and frankly, no matter how wild the ride, I would get real bored, real quick. I wanna race somebody." I agree 100% Dave. I want to race too. 2 of my cars smokin' hard side by side won't be boring though, not on todays tracks with todays horsepower. One of the biggest obstacles to my deal over the last 10 years has been the "I want to race" guys dismissing my gig as exhibition only. True, I don't have a class to run in and right now there's nobody to run against but, exhibition passes were never the end goal. RACING is. I very much appreciate your comments man. They mean something.
Condar, the car your runng will get plenty of attention. a killer run hazen the tires is where its at. as some one said earlyer the big show cars hooked just dosent do it. we ran a 197 inch RCS car in the 90s. my father was out classed in A/GS in 69 and bought a brand new frank huzer slingshot with his partner in late 70. my father quit racing and his partner ran it wiyh his brothers early 90s. they ran the car with a blown chevrolet on 15 and then 20% with the M&H on a 10x 16 and later 13x16 halibrands. on fuel with high gear only with a hays pedal clutch.late 90s i got involved. whene we ran high gear only, we where at 197mph hazen the tires, granted we where 20% and 197 inch so it wasent a 1966 show. we eventualy switched to alcohol and a lenco, same hays pedal clutch. the car picked up et but we lost mph 192 193, still hazen them but at 3 qurtrs down track it would start to hunt. i would think the way your motor is down and driver placment is perfect for a blazen hazen good time for all.
on the tire front i have personly had trouble with the tire situation. i had got a pair of anchent but new 9 inch 29 tall blue streak good years in 1989 ran them on my tunnel ramed big block 69 camaro and i can tell you the compound was like nothing i have experianced since. the smell of the rubber smelled like the oid days at orange county race way. over the years diamaters change and compounds arnt what they use to bee.i run M/T 10 wide x 28 on the same camaro blown on alcohol on the street and in 3rd gear tippen into the injector it stays hooked, havent stayed in long but for a quik hit but they stay hooked. im still looken for that fresh pair of blue steaks for that antique smell and bluish cloud of smoke.
Say, where would be a good place to get additional info on the Jr. Fuelers? How much is "different" than a TF car? And were there "other" classes back then for dragsters? Cheap to build and run I'm sure is relative, but this is the class of car I'd love to build. Those King chassis' are sure looking good.....as are Cenpens.
My computer was destroyed a while back. I'll be checking e-mail/boards once a week until everything is fixed...(I strangely don't miss it!) Titan fixed my oil pump no charge. It goes back in the car this week, plus I'll be adding a special mag switch that will be mounted to the frame. It's a very high quality switch with a large air gap, so it can't be "accidentally" flipped or shorted on/off. Apparantly the simple toggle switch mounted on my steering wheel was a bad idea. Once the mag is switched "ON" DO NOT TOUCH IT!!!!! Any interruption in the mag circuit may cause bad things. Terrible things. This new switch will be as safe as I can get. Cool. I still have to install new slicks/liners, along with axles and coupler assembly, plus re-build my master cylinder before I can push start the car. Plans are to fire it again over the next couple weeks (outside). We'll warm it up again on alcohol, then load the fuel and run it in. Thanks again for all the support since the video was posted, more later!
Conder - unless something has changed, modern cars don't use a switch. They either use a jumper with alligator clips or a short wire with spade terminals and pulled off the mag as the starter was spun. We used a big spring clamp like is used to hold papers to a clipboard across the Mallory coils, and yanked it off to start the car. Do you really need a switch in the driver's compartment? Absolutely not criticizing - just asking.
I need the switch in the car because I'll be push starting it. We had to set it up for a snout starter so we can warm it up in the pits. One additional thing I heard last night...Jensen just got back from running a current F.E.D. on the east coast. It's the "Nitraddiction" rail driven by Howard Haight and tuned by Pete. I guess they were running at a hometown style track out there and simply could not get the car to stop smoking the tires. *Pete said there was very little track prep and lots of balled up rubber on the surface. He backed off the motor as much as he safely could (85%, 40 degrees in the mag and no weight on the crowerglide.) *Haight made 2 full passes in the car smoking the whole way! 7.17 @218 m.p.h. on 12 pounds of air in the new 13" balloon Hoosiers, with the clutch slipping like crazy (he said he burned .080 off the plates.) *He refused to make anymore passes with the car after the initial 2 (this car ain't a Smoker after all), but this info is pretty valuable I think. They run the big mag and fuel pump, but my motor's pretty close to theirs. Pete said if he tried, he could've got Haight into the 6's smokin' 'em! Cool.
Tim, I have a spot for you and your dragster if you want to bring it to The Revolution in penngrove on Sept. 26.I will bring my dragster there to keep yours company.I would love to see it there.
Fox is doing it the way we all would like to do it.. There will always be a faster car, but never a cooler one.. man watching brian is the best.. he's cooler than Elvis.. I'd really like to try it, but our car is wrong.. (no blower, not enuff power, stupid powerglide) DOH !!! I personally get bored out of my mind,( mostly frustrated ) at the "Cacklefest" events.. I mean,those cars are freakin' awesome,and they sound Incredible.. but to just sit and idle.. oh my god.... boring.. at best.. they should at the very least, do a short blast.. even 60' ....now that would be cool.. but that's just me.. Guess it would be like a middle age virgin going to a strip club....ha-ha !!( they look cool, but not really gonna do anything) just a tease
Brian has the combination that's going to make this happen. His way is the right way. It's infinitely more affordable and more accessible. Get with Brian, he's on to it. Nitro is insane. If I wasn't so far along with my gig and was starting from scratch, Fox's set-up would be where I would start.
I feel your pain and always wish the same thing, but there are good reasons for most of them to resist the temptation. A few of the repops with brand new chassis do burnouts and short squirts, but most of the restored original cars are really pretty fragile, despite their looks. The tubing's been rusting from the inside out for forty years or so, and most of 'em were already somewhat fatigued when they stopped racing them long ago. I was lucky enough to get an invitation to "drive" the Howard Cam Rattler in a Cacklefest four or five years ago. My first question was "Is it o.k. if I do a short squirt?" Steve Gibbs told me that as much as he knew I'd enjoy it, "the old girl just isn't up to it anymore." As soon as I had spent a little time in and around it, I knew he was right, especially once we were underway with the push start. It was still a great experience, and I hope to get to do it again someday. Sure enough, the Rattler chassis kinda broke in half just a couple of events later and had to have some pretty extensive repairs. Even on just a short launch, there's still a pretty big load on the old pipe, and most of these guys have spent a fortune getting them back in shape. It's just not worth it to them to take a chance on screwing up these museum pieces. I'd still love to try it just once, though!
Hell, I'm ready to start building one. Reckon I could get by with a Desoto Hemi? A low deck probably would never make the required HP though. Anyone know what classes there were for FED's in mid 60's? I want to build one anyway damnit. Steven.
I think I'd like to try this also. We have the A/F car to go fast and hook, I want to build a FED, oh, 150 in or so. 427 BBC injected on nitro. Stack injection a vertex mag, high gear only, pedal clutch, 8-3/4 mopar rear, about a 3.20 or 3.50 gear, and do like Brian, drive around the water and let it go. I think I can make enough grunt without the blower with the nitro. I think it will smoke em quite a ways as long as I don't over rev it. But it will definitely take some grunt. And some hard ass slicks. I'm collecting parts. Hey, if it doesn't work out, I'll put some regular slicks on it and run it anyway. Found some big hilborn's . I think it's a cool deal with one car smoking them, but TWO cars smoking them and racing! There ya go!! Lippy
I would like to see 6 or 8 of these cars show up at the HAMB drags. I can hear them now...you have to see this oldtime smokers RACING! How about it guys, hey, you can always just race it if it doesn't work! Lippy
I've been watching this thread since the beginning, 'cause I think the idea is very cool. For the last several days (maybe a couple of weeks, it blurs together), I've been working on a rule set for a new circle track class. I'm going to try and revive the open wheel super modified on dirt out here in the mid-west. That has nothing to do with this thread, but I told that story to tell this next one. While doing research for a spec tire for that class it occurred to me that there are several tire manufacturers who are quite willing to mold a tire in a different compound than they normally do. For instance, the IMCA dirt modified and late model tire compound is very hard (for a dirt racing tire at least), and it doesn't give up real fast. They use that same compound for asphalt cars as well, and it seems to wear pretty well, meaning it's pretty hard for a pavement tire too. That got me to thinking about something. Now that Hoosier is the spec supplier to IMCA for that tire, that means they have the compound on hand at all times. Hoosier also makes drag slicks. I don't know anything about them, but it seems to me that since they don't mind molding our dirt tires in whatever compound you want, they might be able to do some drag slicks in that IMCA or some other more suitable hard compound for you guys to use in this endeavor. From what I've gleaned so far, the big problem is that the current generation of tires is made to hook hard, absorb torque at the line by wrapping up, and then give that energy back on the big end like a rubber band. Obviously that doesn't work real well if you're trying to spin the tires for the entire length. In fact, the hook/unhook cycle gets to be so violent that the cars get shook to pieces (a la current Nitro Funny cars breaking in half). Seems to me that you all would be money and time ahead if you could find a tire company to mold you some slicks in a compound and style that will do what you want it to, rather than fighting the current tires that are designed to stop the very thing you're after. That's just my take on things. Remember, I'm a dirt circle track racer, I don't know my ass from a 6-71, so I could be totally and entirely full of shit here. It's just something that occurred to me today, and I thought I'd share it. Also, when/if you guys get this to work, I for one will be back demanding video. It will be epic. Even a circle track guy like me knows that much.
So has anybody put any laps on Cody's Hurst tires? Recaps and they are heavy but he might work with us.
Ryan, your a pretty smart cookie! Great idea. I'm going to try out some Hoosiers on our A/F car next year. Simply because they have a 13x33. I'll ask the rep. Thankyou for the great input! Kerry, what about these Radir (sp) slicks are they caps too? Somehow the thought of an inj nitro car with the re-caps zinging about 300 mph makes me uneasy. Lippy
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